The Rockets won right? You'd never know it by the tone in here. ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
"That Othella play with the 2 offensive rebounds, was NOT over Mo. -NIKESTRAD Yeah I was wondering what the hell Bill Worrell was watching. He was like "Othella Harrington is totally outhustling MO taylor..." Mo had to pick up someone driving baseline and he jumped to block it... naturally Othella was able to sneak his way in and get the rebounds, only becuz Taylor was outta position due to his block attempt. ------------------ da ability to focus attention on important things is a defining characteristic of intelligence - alaskanSnowman [This message has been edited by alaskansnowman (edited December 12, 2000).]
Its a FLUKE! Besides all that post tells me is Kenny is consistant. You you are going to get about 23 minutes 7 points 4+ rebounds from him every single night. With Mo you will usually get nothing (as last night). But sometimes you will 20 or 27 points with a Rox win to pad his stats the stats you just showed. Heres a little clearer brakedown of Mo's output: Game 1/ 17pts /4 boards/ Loss 2 /8pts/ 1 board/ win 3/ 7 / 6 / L 4 /8 / 3 / L 5 /10 / 8 / w 6 / 21/ 2 / w 7 / 10 / 1 / l 8 / 8 / 3 / l 9 / 12 / 6 / w 10 / 17 / 2/ w 11 / 8 / 4 / w 12 / 14 /5 / w 13 / 3 / 7 / l 14 / 8 / 4 / w 15 / 4 / 3 / l 16 / 8 / 3/ w 17 / 12 / 4 / l 18 / DNP / w 19 /4 / 3/ l 20 / 20 / 7 / w 21 / 1 / 4 / w I think these stats clearly state that Mo has had many awful games that he negitively impacted the Rox and we still won. In four wins he scored 17, 21, 14 and 20 points to bring his avg up 12.6 points per game avg per win that you state. I also find it interesting that one of the best games the Rox had this year was against the upstart Mavs...a game Mo did not play. Bottom line KT is a late 1st rounder in his secound year getting paid to be a backup and putting up very respectible backup numbers. Mo is an early 1st round pick in his fourth year being paid starters wages not putting up starters numbers. Now you tell me where our better value is. Who is doing a better job filling their role on the team. And tell me again how great Mo is so I can be sure to pop over to the NBA.com web site and select him as an all star....NOT! ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited December 12, 2000).] [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited December 12, 2000).]
-Huge flaw you made. I need to remind you that Kenny Thomas didn't play in the Dallas game either? -Mo is not being paid starter's wages. 2.25 mill for a starting NBA PF is a bargain. He's making half as much money as Walt Williams, and less than Carlos Rogers (by most monetary counts) -Mo was not early first round, he was mid-first round (#13 or #14 if I recall) -Mo is only a year older than KT. -People are making it out like Kenny's a board machine. He's averaging a little under 5 rebounds. 0.9 rebounds more in 3 minutes less. That's not exactly a stunning number. In less than 3 minutes more PT, Hakeem has 1.2 boards more than KT. STOP THE PRESSES!! As far as consistency goes, it's all about potential. Taylor averages double digits in career, with a high mark of 17.1 just last year. Partly the Clipper effect, but Mo can score. It's proven that he can do it, and become the #3 option behind Steve/Mobes, which we need to be in the post. Kenny Thomas as our #3 offensive option at this point, and almost assuredly in the future is laughable. So, it's ok for him to be consistently a 40% and under shooter, as long as he's consistent? ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
Sorry but I made no mistake. I never said Kenny played in that game. And weather you agree or disagree Mo was signed to start and is being paid to start and KT is not. By the way Mo makes considerably more than KT. Forther more my points were this (and I don't think you can disagree): 1. Mo was brought her and paid to start but produces like a sub. 2. Kenny was not brought here to start is not paid to start and is called on as a player off the bench. Likewise he performs admeribly as a bench player. 3. There are 13 lottery picks...Mo was either a lottery pick or one pick off a lottery pick. In any event a lot more is expected from someone like that than a very late first rounder. 4. All comparisons to KT aside. Mo's Stats as a Rocket are horrible and do not merrit 2.25 million salary or a starters role on any team! 5 Regardless of age Mo has 3 years as a pro Kenny has 1. Huge difference! ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited December 12, 2000).]
If you go by stats then perhaps. But I go by what I see on that floor and not on a stat sheet. I love the way Mo fits with the team. (since you were asking earlier) He has that outside touch as a big man. He has inside moves and outside moves. His offensive game is as skilled as almost any PF in the game. He also is a pretty good defender, and would be getting 7-8 rebounds per game if Rudy had him playing inside more offensively and defensively and also used him as the "featured rebounder", instead of having Dream or KT do that. If Mo plays the way he is now for the entire season, I'd have no hesitation giving him a multi year deal worth 5-6 million a season. 2.25M is an exceptional value IMO for Mo. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier and Mo Taylor fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
If he is doing so well and you like him then why isnt he producing anything? ------------------ Vice President of the Jason Collier fan club!
He is IMO. We would not be over .500 without Mo I don't believe. Rudy is not using him in the right way, and he is not playing enough minutes. You can't expect him to get a ton of points when he doesn't get the ball a lot, and many times when he does get it he is in a bad position on the floor. And when Rudy uses him outside so much on offense and defense, its hard for him to get a lot of rebounds. My definition of produce is what I see on the court and if I think he's helping our team win, not a meaningless stat sheet. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier and Mo Taylor fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Show me a legit starting PF paid less than 2.25 mill, NOT on his rookie contract (or playing for the Clippers). If someone has the patience (I sure don't), I'd like to see the average PF's contract. By comparison, Massenburg was signed for that same 2.25 mill by Vancouver. And he sits on the bench most of the time. As I've said, Rogers (2.6 mill) makes more than Mo. Mo makes more than KT, by less than 1.5 mill, which by basketball standards is not a great difference. Mo was offered a 30 mill-5 year deal by Toronto for a reason. He is one of the most offensively talented players around. If your interest the Dallas game is as I follow, you're implying the Rockets are a better team without Mo and KT? My statement is as follows, and has maintained as that: Kenny Thomas is a good backup PF. By no means is he the answer at PF, or a better starter than Mo. He was a good pick for where we were in the draft. Mo earned all of his rebounds in this past game. If you watched Kenny, several of his boards came when it was surrounded by Rockets, and he grabbed it. In Mo's case, one of the guards chose to grab. What difference does it make if Shandon's getting the board rather than Mo, other than it's put in Shandon's stat sheet? ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
Mo and Kenny are not the solution at power forward. But kenny has more game than Mo right now. ------------------ Vice President of the Jason Collier fan club!
Say what you want about Mo, but is there really that much reason to believe that a power forward who shoots less than 39% with 4.9 boards a game, better than one who shoots 45% with 4 boards a game (and 3 more points)? The Rockets are 4-2 when Mo plays 30+ minutes (2 losses were opener vs. Wolves, and that ugly game vs. Clippers). He scored double figures in 5 of those 6 games (7 vs. the Clippers) scoring above 15 in 4 of them, while averaging a total of 15.6 ppg in games he plays 30+ minutes. Since I'm in a stats type of mood, here's some more. In games won, Mo averages 27.9 MPG, 12.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg (with a 50.5% FG%) In games lost, Mo averages 25.4 MPG, 8.1 PPG, 3.8 RPG (39.5% FG%) comparatively In games won, KT gets 21.3 MPG, 7.0 PPG, 4.6 RPG, shooting 38.5% In games lost, KT averages 24.8 PPG, 7.3 PPG, 4.5 RPG, shooting 40.7% (Note: Due to NBA.com not updating KT, his stats are through only 19 games-17 played, while's Mo's are through 20 games-19 played). So what does all this show? Mo means more to Rockets wins/losses than KT does. Did You Know that Starting Rockets PF Maurice Taylor shoots more than 20% better than backup Kenny Thomas in home games? ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
i just gotta say that i had Mo for one of my fantasy leagues teams and boy he was a$$. i remember one game he scored 20+ on barkley, but barkley outplayed him in everyway. what i'm saying is Mo, without any hustle, heart or determination brings no intangibles to the table. this is on top of some missing fundamentals in the first place. ------------------ purvis was never short.
As far as whether or not the guy is worth 2 mil, you're damn right he is. Nobody in this league makes less than 2 mil. What he gives us is worth this. What I don't understand is, if the guy is hustling and working his ass off, as some have said, why are his numbers so low? And why should we expect them to improve? Is he going to work his ass off more? I understand Mo getting bashed every game. Yes, Cat, you are right, no one is complaining about everyone else's mistakes. But just because other people are making mistakes doesn't mean we can't criticize Mo for making them. So, to be fair... 1. Francis seems tentative sometimes. Damn him. 2. Mobley shoots ill-advised shots. Damn him. 3. Dream shouldn't have taken his concerns to the media instead of Rudy. Damn him. 4. Kenny Thomas travels a lot. Damn him. 5. Shandon has some problems dribbling sometimes, and often looks out of sync. Damn him. 6. Wizard is very inconsistent, and looks awkward when driving the ball. Damn him. 7. Bullard, well, he's playing well. 8. So is Moochie. 9. So is Carlos. 10. Langhi and Pig aren't doing anything. But it's not their fault, they're not playing. 11. Rudy doesn't usually have the guy with the hot hand shooting the ball as much as I'd like. Damn him. 12. Calvin wears stupid-looking suits. Damn him. 13. Bill doesn't seem to like Kenny. Damn him. 14. Our attendance is low. Damn us. 15. This whole presidential election thing isn't decided yet. Damn everybody. Now that I've criticized basically everyone, I'm being fair. But Mo is not rebounding and not playing very aggressive defense. Damn him. Everybody happy? ------------------ Jazzkiller
I will be, once threads containing that are posted about 10 times after every game, win or lose, like the Bash Mo threads. Then it'll be fair. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier and Mo Taylor fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Not unless everyone is either people who go by stat sheets or don't know the game. I think looking at Mo's contract, right now he is one of the best bargains in the league- from what I've seen of him this year he's worth a lot more, not less. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier and Mo Taylor fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Please feel free to show me the intangables that Mo brings to the team that the stat sheets don't show that make him such a good value! Just the game last night showed how a less paid PF (KT) can contribute more just through hustle alone. ------------------
Let's see... maybe it's how much of a better defender he is than KT. Or maybe it's how he can shoot better from the outside. Or maybe it's because he has more inside moves and can finish. Or maybe it's because his entire offensive repetoire is light years ahead of KT's. Or maybe it's because he draws more double teams from the defense. Or maybe it's because his bigger body is more suited for the PF position. Or maybe it's because IMO he hustles more. Or maybe it's because he can shoot a much higher percentage. Or maybe it's because he's a much better passer, and the team chemistry looks to be better with Mo on the floor. No, those make too much sense! Let's just look at some stupid stat sheets and determine his value. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier and Mo Taylor fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
To all the people who say Mo sucks: I partially agree with TheCat. You cant just look at stats alone people. If you have been watchin Mo play, and have not noticed that this guy's got some serious offensive game and some serious potential, then you ARE blind. On the other hand, it is fairly disappointing when you DO look at Mo's numbers. Obviously, he hasnt been playing too well, but I think that he is just simply off to a rough start. He hasnt been playing too well, but the main reason that I and the other Mo supporters believe in him is cuz he's definately got the talent to turn it around and start playing better. That's why we're saying "dont rely on stats alone." There's really no denying that Mo hasnt played too well(unless your TheCat)... even Mo himself said he was frustrated at his play, but MO Taylor does not suck whatsoever. He's definately got the skills, size, and athletecism to become a PREMIER power forward in the league... it's his choice whether to use them, and I think and hope that he will. ------------------ da ability to focus attention on important things is a defining characteristic of intelligence - alaskanSnowman
I am tired of this argument. I think we all know where each of us stand on the Mo argument. All I care is that we are winning, I could care less about anything else. 12-9 is not too shabby for this young team Go Rockets !!! DaDakota ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
