MLB wont let Dirk throw 1st pitch at World Series since he lacks national appeal

"It's like I'm playing cards with my sister's kids"

 

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You do realize Baseball stadiums are larger right? Your argument makes no sense. If you want a better representation, figure out what the capacity for Minute Maid Park and Toyota Center are and then figure out the % of occupied seats.

Minute Maid = 43,836 seats (25,518 average attendance) 58% filled
Toyota Center = 18,043 seats (16,191 average attendance) 90% filled

If you look at the average capacity per game, the Rockets completely out rank the Astros. The only reason there's a larger amount of total season visitors is because the Astros play 81 home games as opposed to 41 for the Rockets and also Minute Maid is 2.5x bigger in total seating capacity

 

He did better than John Wall

 

BasketB is more fun to watch!
Simple as that

 

Can the general public know who Ben Wallace, who was an all-star matching up with arguably the most popular player at the time in Shaq, when the Pistons beat the Lakers?

People tune in for different reasons. It's a fact that most people tuned in to watch the Heat/Lebron lose, not for the Mavericks. You have denied that fact, but that's you.

It was a fact that the Miami Heat as a team drew record ratings in EVERY series leading up to their finals loss. So who really tuned in to watch who? The Finals last year drew more than the Lakers-Celtics 2 years ago. You really think the Mavs were the draw?

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....es-in-to-see-heat-fail-television-ratings-up/

Can the general public name one Texas Rangers who has made the World Series 2 years in a row? They beat the Yanks last year on the way to the WS. Hell no

Sorry for offending some of the Germans in this thread. Accept the fact please. The MLB spokesman said it himself: Dirk lacks "broad-base appeal."

The NBA is a clear #2 now unless the lockout drags on. The playoffs of the MLB drew ugly ratings around 3. The World Series finally draw around a 9-10, which is more respectable, but still record-lows.

The NBA all-star game drew higher ratings than the MLB playoffs. And the NBA Finals drew more than the current World Series.

Look, the MLB is only relevant when the Yanks and Red Sox are invovled.

 

I have been to a bunch of astros and rockets games and I can tell you a lot more people come out to see baseball. Yes the tickets are cheaper, but there are twice as many games. On friday night mmp had a lot of people in there. It wasn't full or anything, but more people there than rockets games, and this was the worst team in baseball by a large margin. The Toyota center was half empty for most of the games especially the lower bowls. If it was yankees phillies the ratings would be much higher.

 

Baseball seems to have good attendance, but I'm guessing TV ratings are more critical from a revenue generating standpoint.

They are abysmal in that area.

 

Denied what fact?

Are you the only one who doesn't get it? We ALL know Miami Heat is MORE popular, we all know Lebron James is more popular.

You keep changing your point because your original point is blatantly false. I KNOW Dirk is not as popular as Lebron, but does that mean nobody knows about Dirk?

No **** people watch the finals for the Heat, but are you seriously that obtuse that you don't get the simple point that the Heat plays against another team and that other team defeated the Heat? That one German guy did significant damage to the hyped up team? That the same German guy who has been going bat**** crazy over Lakers and a ton of other playoff teams? And you think that nobody would have heard of Dirk even after that series?

I'm going to say this one more time, and I'm not going to say it again. Dirk is well known, but not necessarily popular. That itself is Dirk lacking "broad-base appeal".

I don't know why I bother. You don't even argue for your point, you argue for whatever point you can argue for. You can literally argue against yourself.

 

He's comparing Dirk Nowitzki to Ben Wallace? LOLZ. Anything to hype up his boy LeBrick.

 

Not sure why you posted the fact that the NBA all star game outdrawing the MLB playoffs, since it also outdrew the NBA playoffs. Did you also know the MLB All-star game outdrew all three (NBA All star, playoffs and MLB playoffs)?

As for ratings;
Viewership for the NBA Finals and World Series From 2000-2009


More detailed analysis here;
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2009/11/tale-of-tape-nba-vs-mlb/

However the NBA Finals has clearly beaten the MLB World Series in 2010 and will likely do so again in 2011. The 2010 MLB world series drew an avg 8.4 rating 14.3 million while the NBA drew 10.6 rating 18.1 million. In 2011 the NBA drew 10.2 rating 17.3 million while the World series is currently avg 8.8 rating avg rating through two games.

Taking 2010 and probably 2011 into account the NBA Finals has beaten the MLB Finals only 3 times in 12 years, not exactly a clear indication of dominance.

Not sure what ticket prices have to do with anything, since MLB has twice as many games and nearly double the capacity. But since both tickets and ratings are really indicators and sources which determines revenue, its interesting to note that the NBA (according to you the clear number 2 sports league in U.S) trail MLB by a large margin in both REVENUE and VALUE.

The avg MLB franchise 523 million up 7% > avg NBA final $369 million, up 1%
via Forbes.com

And for revenue

 

Dirk has been voted runner-up to the starters at forward 4 times. Solid top 15-20 overall vote getter.

 

MLB playoffs ratings:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/201...layoffs-tv-ratings-league-championship-series

The NLCS drew a freakin' 2.9 ratings, while the ALCS drew a 5.1

Do you know how bad those numbers are? The NLCS ratings were actually WORSE than the first rounds (which were in the 3-4)

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ries-game-2-viewership-up-5-from-2010/108065/

Now the World Series has been getting respectable 7-9 ratings, but still record lows for MLB. You can argue that's b/c not Yankees or Red Sox

Now let's compare to the NBA

First round for the NBA avg around 3

2nd round for the NBA avg 4

3rd round avg around 8-9

Finals avg a 13-15 rating, with game 6 at 16, with over 24 million viewers

Now let's go to the all-star games:

2011 NBA all-star was seen by 17 million people
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...t-watched-and-highest-rated-since-2003/83305/

2011 MLB all-star was seen by 11 million people
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/spor...ever-2011-mlb-all-star-game-draws-no-interest

so I don't get how you got the numbers that the MLB all-star game outdrew the NBA all-star game.

Last year, numbers/ratings prove the NBA was inching ahead of MLB as the #2 sport in terms of general public viewership. We are not talking about past' trends. We are talking about this GOING FORWARD. MLB has been more popular than the NBA for the past decade, outside of the past few years. And it's going to get better for the NBA b/c they have more stars.

That is why the lockout is bad for the NBA right now.

Again, I said the NBA is "beginning" to surpass the MLB as the #2 sport. If you take the numbers of revenue/value of teams in 10-15 years b/t the NBA/MLB, it most likely will be very different.

I don't live in Houston so I don't know the popularity of sports over there. But it's pathetic when I watch Rocket games and see empty seats in the front row or how the fans cheer, even in big games. So I'm just assuming basketball isn't huge over there in Houston. As a Rocket fan, it pains me to watch games sometimes b/c you don't see the passion on the TV screen. That was the case even when we had a prime TMAC/YAO competing. That's just not good.

Take over here in LA where I live, the Lakers are clearly the #1 team in LA, and they rule the city.

Dirk had 700k all-star votes. Only a handful of players are household names who are known to the general public. Rajon Rondo had freakin' more votes than Dirk for the all-star game. Do you think Rondo is "well-known" to the general public who doesn't follow basketball?

Sports in general ALWAYS tries to bring in the casual people who don't follow sports much, b/c that brings in higher ratings and thus more money. Each sports have their fanbase already, but their wish is to bring in NEWER fans or GENERAL people. You think a person who doesn't follow sports, which is MOST of America, which has a population of over 300 million.

Are you going to tell me Rondo is "well-known" across America??? Are you freakin' serious?

And HE had way more votes than Dirk last year.

I said nobody outside of basketball fans, Texas, and Dirk's continent knows Dirk. And that's true. A normal person who doesn't follow sports much does not know who Dirk Nowitzki is. There is a REASON that Major League Baseball stated that Dirk lacks "BROAD-BASE APPEAL." You seem to argue this point with me when indeed a MLB spokesman stated that fact, and I'm sure MLB has "some" research on who has broad-base appeal and who doesn't.

Again, are you going to tell me Dirk is going to make the NBA all-star team as a starter next year? Only the NBA starters are pretty known generally to the public, even to people who don't follow sports much or just casually. That's why they get voted in, even if they suck (ala a Vince Carter or TMac or Shaq for a few years in their decline). Dirk would never sniff an all-star starter spot, even after he won a 'chip last year in front of 24 million people in America.

And to your "well-known" v. popularity argument, which is dumb. He's not that well-known. There's a reason he's a top 5-7 players for over a decade, and yet he's in general gets the 18-20th all-star votes. He doesn't get the national commercials/contracts, or appears on national TV shows after his championship win. There are reasons for that. He's not well-known.

Exactly. Sports/basketball fans know Dirk. The general public doesn't.

 

Are you ****ing serious? Do you just ignore people's posts?

I find it funny that you completely ignored ferrari77's post when he blatantly addresses your "Dirk doesn't get national commericals/contacts or appear on national tv shows because he isn't popular enough" point.

I think I'm done here. You don't even attempt to make your argument more flexible to suit people's counter arguments. All you do is continuously force the same point over and over again to every single counter argument.

"Nobody knows about Dirk!"
If people didn't know about Dirk before, they certainly would now after the Heat
"Dirk doesn't get many all-star votes"
Because the argument is based on after his championship....
"Dirk still doesn't get many all-star votes, which means he is not popular!"
Because this is about being well-known and not popular..
"But he isn't well known!" *Completely ignores ferrari's post addressing that point.
"Well, people don't watch the finals for Dirk, they watch it for the Heat!"
And they also watched Dirk destroy the Heat in the process
"Rondo has more all-star votes than Dirk, he is more popular!"
This isn't an argument about popularity..

This is the cycle of the argument. You blatantly ignore valid points and just continue to force the same damn point over and over again even after it's proven false.

 

Don't be dissing Nolan Ryan. That guy is legend.

 

From your own links:

The 2011 NBA All-Star Game on TNT delivered 9.1 million total viewers, 6 million households and a 5.2 U.S. HH rating, along with strong growth across all key demos, according to Nielsen Fast Nationals. This year’s star-studded contest in Los Angeles ranks as the most watched and highest rated game since 2003

...

According to the SportsBusiness Daily, the All-Star game pulled a measly 6.9 Nielsen TV rating, a total down 8 percent from last year’s 7.5 rating. Furthermore, the average viewership declined from the 12.1 million that tuned in for 2010’s version to only 11 million this time around.

So the worst-ever rated MLB All-Star game drew more viewers than the most highly rated NBA All-Star game in 8 years.

Your 17 million viewer number is misleading because it included both the All-Star game and the Saturday night activities - which are basically going to be the same people double-counted - while your MLB number only included the game itself.

 

Good catch Major. I skimmed too fast. Hoever, trending through the season and into the Finals, the NBA surpassed the MLB in terms of ratings.

If there was no lockout, I think the NBA woukd surpass MLB as the #2 sport as it wouod build on last year's momentum.

The NBA Finals in Game 6 drew a 15 overnighy rating and 24 million viewers. The World Series so far has only achieved a 8-9 rating.

 

What proof do you have that prove Dirk is "well-known?"

You may disagree with the numbers I put up, so again instead of pure discussion for the sake of arguing, please provide any type of proof that Dirk is well-known outside of the sports world. The only proof to show how well-known an athlete is is by their all-star votes, jersey sales, national commercials/contracts. So if Ferrari claims, and I will give him the benefit of the doubt, that Dirk doesnt get the commercials/deals because he does not have an agent nor care for those things. That leaves us with all-star votes and jersey sales, and he DOES NOT crack top 15 in EITHER. And that is just to gauge within the basketball sports world. If he does not crack the top 15 among the basketball fans, what logical claim is there to be made that he is known among the general public. And we can revisit these updated numbers next year to see if winning the 'chip gave him any kind of a boost.

I stand by what I said that the general public, which excludes sports viewers, does not know who Dirk is.

So please provide something concrete to prove Dirk is well-known, not your own opinion since your opinion differs from mine.

 

You seem to have a huge problem understanding the difference between being well known and being popular.

Let me give you a kindergarten example so you would stop repeating the same irrelevant point over and over again.

Popularity has to do with support, admiration and being liked.

Being well-known, or famous, does not have anything to do with admiration or being liked. Case in point, Rebecca Black is ridiculously famous and ridiculously hated.

Obama is more popular than McCain because he had more votes and more support, but he is not more well known than McCain.

I have repeated this for the 100th time now, and your inability to comprehend something so simple is frightening. Jersey sales, all-star votes are all indications of popularity for the 100th time.

So here is a simple fact that tells me Dirk is well-known. The fact that he was not only nominated, but was selected to pitch. Why would a person who is unknown be nominated in the first place? The only reason there was a concern was because he lacked "national appeal", in other words, he wasn't popular enough. Key word "appeal" meaning attraction. That doesn't mean he isn't known, because if he wasn't known he wouldn't even be nominated in the first place.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/32861121

I don't even know why you are still arguing that Dirk is not well known when he just threw the first pitch.

 

abysmal compared to what? the NFL? certainly you don't mean compared to the NBA...because that would be flat wrong.

and if you're talking about revenues, generally, MLB is second only to NFL.