After 94 I really didn't think we would see this again in our lifetime. The 94 strike damaged fan sentiment towards the game much more than people seem to understand Attendance in 94 before the strike was at an all time record at that time, over 31K per game When baseball came back in 95 attendance dropped to 25K. That might not even sound as bad as it is, but it's a drop of about 20 million. While the steroid driven HR race of 98 is generally given credit for bringing back fans, it would actually be 2006 before attendance would once again top 31K (Maybe it was the Chris Burke HR that brought back fans) After climbing again in 2007 to a record 32,696 per game (79.5 million) attendance dropped a little the next couple of years and then stayed steady at around 30 K for several years. 2017-18-19 all saw drops in attendance (this is pre-pandemic) to where in 2019 overall attendance was 68.5 million, a drop of about 11 million fans from 2007. Obviously last years numbers of 18.5K per game are pandemic driven, but the fact that there was a steady decline even before the pandemic should let these guys know that the popularity of baseball hasn't been on the rise, and quite frankly millions of people figured out during 2020 that their lives would be just fine with or without it Now we have a labor issue that once again, like 94, threatens mlb games. As bad as it hurt the fans back then, I don't think you can overestimate the fact that social media is going to create a much bigger backlash this time than in 94, if we do in fact miss games. Life was much more simple in 94. We got the news at 5 and 10, we were able to watch sports on a daily basis by that point, but news from other games was still only on sportcenter at the end of the evening. The internet wasn't in most people's homes yet. "Cell" phones were out, but it was a big ole bag that you could talk on, there was no flashing alerts about players and owners and yada yada. If politics has taught us anything it's that social media can take a divide and make it into the grand canyon. If games are missed, it's gonna take a lot more than a drug infused explosion of HRs to begin bringing fans back this time. These guys have about a week to keep from screwing up their gravy train, or at least the gravy train of players to come. These guys (players and owners) have theirs already, but the 10 year effects of this will start a decline in both revenue and salaries that neither side can even fathom right now
In fairness, MLB made a mistake expanding into Miami and Tampa that hurts on average attendance. Take those 2 out and average attendance probably did bounce back fully by 1999.
I am used to a world driven by self interest. What is sad here is the two camps seem to have lost sight of what their self interests actually are.
The strike was very different to this. It happened mid-season after fans were invested in their teams and then had baseball (and most importantly, the postseason) taken from them. This will be more like the Covid 2020 season or any of the NBA lockouts - you miss the early part of the season. No one really cares if April baseball doesn't happen. Probably not May either. Fans will jump right back in and things will go on. Unless a significant chunk of the season gets cancelled, I don't think this has any impact on the sport long-term. Players and owners will make less money, but the key to baseball really is the summer and the post-season. Most fans think there too many games anyway.
Baseball was still "new" in 98 and 99 down there. While attendance would certainly crater later on, in 98 attendance for the Rays was over 2.5 million, over 30 K per game. Even in Miami it was over 1.7 million. In 99 attendance dropped in both but was still almost 1.8 million in Tampa By 2001 both were definitely a drag on attendance, struggling to average over a million fans
While what you say about the strike is very true, I don't think comparing this to 2020 will hold true While there were people with strong feelings on both sides of missing baseball early on in 2020, nothing was going on to cause people to BLAME the owners and players for not having baseball. That was politicians not allowing baseball. Again, regardless of which side anyone was on in that debate, the blame game was directed towards politicians not the game This is different in that the blame is on "billionaires and millionaires"...regardless of whether you support the players, the owners, both, neither...the reason we don't have baseball is squarely on them Now, for people who love baseball enough to get on a site like this and discuss the game 12 months a year, we will be back as soon as the games begin. Many MANY won't though, they will hold it against the "rich people" who are taking the game away from us I also think that the pandemic led people away from going to games and even without the lockout, some of them have found other ways to spend their time and won't be back, at least not as often, to games anyway. It's impossible to know how many fit in that category as obviously attendance last year was down in large margins driven by the pandemic still. My biggest hope is we don't get to find out if you are right or I am
Those are bad attendance numbers compared to the rest of baseball that was averaging about 2.5M fans.
I think this is a good example of what I'm talking about. Unlike the NBA and the NFL (and March Madness, etc), the problem with MLB was that MLB Owners and Players were endlessly b****ing at each other about terms for the season. The original delay was Covid, but their griping almost killed the whole season and delayed the start much further. MLB wanted to expand playoffs; players wanted to get paid full salaries for a shortened season, etc. But once it started, everyone forgot about it. Go backwards/forwards in this thread to see a lot of the reactions here as each side kept rejecting the others' demands: https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/...opening-day-at-least-two-weeks.304335/page-32
Oh no doubt that is how it went down. And yes, diehard fans were tied in to that. But, as i've said, us diehards are going to come back regardless. We love the game. Go back and look at the hatred of the DH when we moved to the AL, yet I don't remember losing many of those pissed off fans. We make up a pretty small fraction of fans though, and a majority just saw baseball as not being played because of the pandemic I also believe social media will play a big role if we start missing games. Don't underestimate the amount of anger social media can create. We live in a different world from 94, and I say 94 was a huge blow to the game, hence turning a blind eye to steroids
Ok, Tampa still outdrew 9 teams in 99, so not mid top of the pack, but hardly a huge drag on attendance. The Marlins had dropped into the 1.3 million range by 99 though Doing simple math even if you take out the two Florida teams in 99, average attendance per game for the other 28 teams only goes up 513 fans per game, and still well short of the pace 94 was on Again, I hope we don't have to find out what the effect of missing games in April will be, hopefully they figure things out by meeting every day next week. Personally, i'm not optimistic though, and i'm a very optimistic person by nature
Baseball has had this problem now for a generation. Hence why they’re trying to do everything possible to gain more fans… at the detriment to the integrity of parts of the game that some find “special”. They’re ahead of the game in the streaming realm… and really should focus their efforts on that. Baseball is designed to be consumed daily. Like a crossword or a soap opera (two things also outdated). The easier they make it to consume, the more likely their reach will extend beyond the current diehards/sports fanatics that they’ll always have. More games on YouTube, amazon, etc. along with regulating the asinine local media deals that have idiotic territorial restrictions need to be a major focus of Manfred and the ones who run MLB media. There is a windfall of potential revenue for all the teams and the league… and the media/streaming/online access has already been sustaining high revenues for some time (while the decreasing/inconsistent attendance was well pointed out by you). None of this has much to do with the CBA negotiations… but can certainly serve to better the league as a whole. TV/media deals do change the landscape of leagues significantly and baseball has a unique opportunity to be the front runner on what will be the future of all live sports eventually (all streaming).
Honestly I don’t care about the lockout or when baseball starts again. It will start again. Maybe it’s 2022, maybe in 2023. I love baseball but I have no emotional attachment to labor negotiations. I’m not for or against anyone and it doesn’t bother me how long it goes. The pandemic taught me this. My advice for baseball to get back on the field would be for media to stop covering the lockout. Zero MLB baseball headlines until lockout ends. You will be amazed how fast a deal gets finished then.
Agreed. Compared to 94 or even 2020, apathy regarding this story has fully declared itself. I still don't understand why they're going through all the effort to have meetings... then have them only last 10 or 15 min. They all know the issues. If they have smart enough lawyers/advisors, they also likely already know which issues are non-starters and which issues are negotiable (and what the limits truly are). Negotiate and discuss daily till a solution is reached. Make the effort. If they don't care enough to work harder at this, why should the fans care?
