MJ: "I would never have called up Larry, Magic & say lets get together."

NBA fan using the term "true contenders" = semantics

 

I dont see what the debate is when you talk about the cavs, WITH Lebron they are a number 1 seed in the playoffs every year.

WITHOUT Lebron they are a 1st pick in the lottery team.

The orlando series in 2009 taught me everything I ever needed to know about the cavs, and it also made it obvious that lebron was never gonna be able to drag that team to a championship.

Pick and roll with big z shooting a 17 ft jumper, automatic during the regular season, lebron drive and kick to mo williams for a wide open 3 = automatic, these things were done to perfection the whole year, right until playoff time and then the go to plays fall apart and the open shots by mo williams dont fall anymore and neither do big z's 17 footers. I mean what can you do about that? When the bread and butter that got you 66 wins all of a sudden doesnt work anymore, what do you do? Ask mike brown and he will tell you to give the ball to Lebron at the "nail" and tell Lebron to win it for you.

Come on seriously after seeing the lakers come through for Kobe in the finals how can anyone argue that this cavs team was good enough to win a championship?

What I see is that Lebron is almost good enough to drag his team to a ring, but not quite because he is still only human. (with the exception of the 2007 game 5 detroit performance)

 

maybe i can see how it's silly to you and others who believed it from the start...but like i mentioned before, to me it's not hindsight or being a revisionist... i've had this view since they went to the finals...I expect the spurs to beat them easily and when the cavs racked up 60 + wins i wondered throughout the season how it happened with that roster and didnt expect much from the in the playoffs. Obviously i'm not right about every basketball opinion i have, but in this case i feel like i have been, and it can't be any more evident after Lebron walked out on them after a 60 win season. You dont give up your home town and everything you've built to go from a true contender who's close, to a possible true contender who can be close. I'd understand going to LA or boston, who's proven and there's a high chance of repeating, but to a new team that'll be built from scratch? Even with great players they have nothing to show they've done it before. If he left its because cleveland wasnt as close as many believed.

 

All the greats were Human who liked competition, not form a superfriend team so they eliminate possible competition.


It would different if the GM got you excellent players. MJ said it best......

 

then we're definitely arguing semantics...because if you're suggesting the Eastern Conference Champion isn't a championship contender in the very season they're Eastern Conference Champions, you have a very different definition of "championship contender" than I have.

there are lots of possible motivations for LeBron leaving for Miami other than the one you mentioned. if it's true that these guys had been talking about this for years, then he could have left simply to be with his friends...who also happen to be great players.

 

I think they're his friends because they are great players.

 

Oh PLEASE. The Cavs were a great team all year and good enough to get the #1 seed in the NBA.. but suddenly if they lose, it was because LBJ had no help?? That's such a lame excuse. If you have enough "help" to be the best team in the NBA, don't complain about the "help" when you quit on your team in the second round.

Think of this scenario: LeBron never once committed to the Cavs. Ariza would have signed on the dotted line, but LBJ couldn't tell him he'd still be there. Management did everything they could to bring in players, but that's pretty hard to do when your "lead" Alpha Dog can't even recruit for you. The Cavs almost had one of the best coaches in college -- but LeBron couldn't even respond to a text or pickup the phone when he called. What would have happened if the Cavs won the finals? How on earth could he have ever left CLE then? I don't think he could.. which makes me think he had some incentive to quitting in that Boston series.

And the Cavs could very well make the playoffs in the weak East this year -- they are not as bad as you and everyone else tries to make them out to be.

 

Can someone please answer this?

 

i think if LeBron can win 66 games with that squad, he could very well have won a title with them.

i think Jordan absolutely could have.

i think Kobe absolutely could have.

 

I guess in the end it is semantics, but i dont understand why my definition would be diffcult to understand. Your def is the textbook definition. Anyone playing in the finals obviously contending, since they have some kind of shot by just being there participating...


So he left his hometown, his family, his boys, and his long time fans to be with 2 friends that probably arent even his best friends? Doesnt make sense to me, even if they are geat players. He knows how important teams are. If he left i think it has more to do with leaving a team that's not good enough, rather than joining two good players. Remember Miami wasnt his only option. He was leaving to start fresh and build a new team, not simply pair up specifically with wade and bosh. It was clear the cavs were stuck for a while given the contracts they had, if not for the wizards' situation, they wouldnt have even acquired jamison, which on paper was a good thing, but still left them without flexibility, if it didnt work. It didnt and Lebron left them. That's also why they all want to have a shot at opting out in 3 yrs, flexibility.

 

With Mike Brown as the Coach?

The same Coach that fails to make adjustments in the playoffs?

I don't think any superstar would win a Championship with him as the Coach with that supporting cast.

The fact that damn near everyone joked that he should hand his Coach Of The Year Trophy to LeBron speaks volumes on Mike Brown.

 

So you agree that he quit on his team? I mean, this is the same guy who shot a perfect FT to put his team up by four in the closing seconds.. then mysteriously the right-elbow acted up prior to the 2nd free throw so he "had" to shoot left handed. Ugh.

Who is CLE battling?

1. Orlando
2. Atlanta
3. Miami
4. Boston
5. Chicago
6. Milwaukee?
7. ?
8. ?

IMO, the last two spots are up for grabs. Charlotte/Toronto have gotten worse, Indiana/Detroit/Philadelphia/NJ didn't make major improvements this off-season. I think the last two spots could be CLE and New York (unfortunately).

Right now, Cleveland has:

Mo Williams
Anthony Parker
Moon
Hickson
Varejao

with Jamison/Powe/West off the bench. Obviously there's no real true star, and Moon is a pretty weak SF, but that roster isn't bad. You honestly think, now without LeBron, they'll be the worst team in the NBA? I'd take that bet.

 

New York will probably have a better record than Cleveland.

Charlotte will be better than Cleveland. They didn't lose much.

 

Just their starting PG and C? I think it's certainly fair to say that Charlotte got worse, based on losing Felton alone. I don't think anyone is confident on relying on DJ Augustin.

 

Personally I think to say someone quit on his team is a serious accusation, but i do think something about game 5 wasnt right, he just looked too non chalant, but like i said I think he left cleveland mentally last year in orlando after game 6

 

yes there is. there's a reason lebron were unanimous MVPs for god sake for those 2 60+ win seasons. nobody cared a lick for the 2nd best player on those cavs teams. all the other great teams you can bring up that had 60+ wins season will have a 2nd best player who is considered a star by the majority of the league.

when you have one single player who has 10+ more points than the 2nd best player, 2nd in rebounding and he's not a big man, 3 more assists than you point guard, 2nd in blocks and he's not a big man, #1 in steals by 0.5 margin -> then yea it's pretty much a one man show. that's how good lebron is.

that doesn't translate in the playoffs b/c you face better teams over and over again. lebron can beat any team by himself, but he needs help v. top 3-4 teams.

we have not seen one single dominant player like lebron who can literally take a team to great heights (reg. season wise) by himself. the stats prove it. lebron was basically the best player and some.

usually when you have that scenario (kobe, wade, tmac.. all tried it), the best they can do is a 6-8th seed or no playoffs. lebron gets you 60 wins.

 

bolded for emphasis. you hit this right on the nail.

bring 2 teams both kobe and lebron have matched up in playoffs: orlando and celtics. lebron CLEARLY played better than kobe v. both teams (and it's not even close). and yet his team lost.

do you know where they lost? the big men match up.

lakers match up well w/ dwight howard bc of pau.
lakers match up well w kg and perkins bc of pau, bynum, and odom.

and as you saw, howard struggled mightily v. lakers compared to cavs. kg and perkins played below the level v. lakers compared to cavs.

and i'm sure goodbug will come in to say kobe played great defense on those big men...

 

Are you talking about them losing Tyson Chandler? Wasn't he out most of last year or not starting? I forgot who was actually starting at Center at the time.

PG wise maybe they are high on DJ Augustin. Still Larry Brown will get that team to the playoffs.

 

without lebron last year, the cavs went 1-5.
without lebron 2 years ago, cavs went 0-1.

so, let's make a bet if they are going to be a bottom 5 team or not.

from 66 wins to bottom 5 (if it does happen), that doesn't say muc about your supporting cast.