Their rings might not mean anything to you but they sure as hell do mean something to the city and basketball players of San Antonio. Also they probably mean alot to every other player in the NBA who just so badly wants to win a ring.
All your big talks and words are fit for movies and books, but doesn't work in this real world we live in and the nature of NBA business. It's like talking morality and truth when it comes to international politics, it's good and all, but it just doesn't work that way. You can't survive doing what you think is right. You have to base your judgement and ideals on reality. It DOESN'T MATTER and NO ONE CARES what you and I think about the Spurs and the Cavs. Because of their tanking, they are two of the most respected (especially the Spurs, and the Cavs will get there) franchises in NBA and the world. The Spurs won championships after championships. Their fans love them, the NBA loves them, everyone envies them. The samething with the Cavs. They were the laughing stock of the NBA. Then they tanked and got LeBron (they publicly stated that their whole season's main objective is to get LeBron), and now they are the talk of the NBA. If LeBron stays, they will have a good chance to win a championships in the next few years. Would people remember these teams tanked to get Duncan/LeBron? Probably. But hey, they are/will be the champs, and that's all it matters. This is the business world, and you follow the rules.
FRIDAYS GAME IS HUGE!! IF WE LOSE WE WILL BE ONLY 1 GB OF THE #6 PICK. EVEN TANK HATERS HAVE TO LIKE THE SOUND OF THAT!
There is a gigantic difference between #11 pick and #6 pick. The Rockets need to play with the heart, intensity and determination to lose this game. I say fire JVG is he wins this sucker.
as you can see we have to lose out to even have a chance at movign down at all. it won't be easy but you have to believe! ROCKETS @GSW L @SAC L @UTA L MIN L MEM L DEN L SAS L 32-50 WARRIORS HOU W @DEN L @LAL L DAL L PHO L @POR W POR W @UTA L 33-49 CELTICS @PHI L NYK W @IND L NJN L @NJN L CLE L MIA L 32-50 WOLVES UTA L ATL W @MEM L @HOU W @IND L SAS L MEM L 33-49 SONICS @POR W PHO L @SAS L @NOK W LAC L SAC L DEN L 33-49 MAGIC DET L @MIA L ATL W TOR W @SAS L PHI L CHI L @IND L 32-50
Big Talk? It's just my opinion. As I said, not everyone agrees. I disagree with the notion that the Rockets tanked the end of that season deliberately (that we got Yao), I was a season ticket holder then too, and recall evaluating that Rudy just didn't have tanking in him, regardless how we were doing. The Cavs are one of the most respected teams in the world? news to me. Are the spurs a good team? Sure. Do I respect Duncan? Yeah, one of the greatest ever in my book. Do I think what they did is justified? Not personally... and again, I have no respect or recognition for their rings, and have told many a spurs fan as much. Additionally, the cavs have no guarantee of greatness. This doesn't detract from LeBron, he's great too.... there are just no guarantees. I didn't say the spurs had the worst record... just was trying to make the point that being last doesn't beget you greatness by default, under the lotto rules. The reference to the spurs was solely based on the accepted idea that we ALL believe they tanked. My point is exactly in contrast to THIS: "The Spurs won championships after championships. Their fans love them, the NBA loves them, everyone envies them." This is a misconception, and my opinion, which I'm entitled to, proves it wrong, regardless the size of this minority. Of course, I'm sure the fans are glad to pretend those trophies were obtained honorably, I disagree. As for a ring meaning everything to every other NBA player, my guess is that there are other teams out there that could tank, and won't, and probably don't appreciate a team that succeeds because they do/did. I have no problem with some semblance of THIS: "Now, were any of these teams intentionally losing games? No, I don't think so. And they weren't dogging it either(not intentionally). But they definitely weren't making an effort to put the best players on the floor that they could, which is what the rox should do. Reduce Yao's minutes, stop playing the old guys, and put it in cruise control." But that's not tanking in my book, and not what folks here are talking about for the most part ( notice thread subject). And THIS "You can't survive doing what you think is right." is the most depressing thing I've heard in a long time, and mostly the attitude with which I have a problem. It simply isn't true. Then THIS: "But hey, they are/will be the champs, and that's all it matters." Again, my point is that ISN'T all that matters. If you are only happy with ultimate success at any cost, the price is higher than might appear on the surface, and not all that pay that price will taste the fruits of their labor in giving up their pride and character. Don't get me wrong, it's just basketball, I'm not saying that they're going to hell or anything, just that it lowered my respect for them... and I'd rather my team didn't give up to gain a chance at a POTENTIAL advantage. It's my personal opinion. What can I say, I believe in kharma. GO ROCKETS.
I think you just really hate the spurs!! You can't keep going with this no respect thing, Someone could come back and say Houston tanked for Olajuwon and they have no respect for our rings!
And you think we get the respect? I will readily admit, the point you make is tougher to argue, though I wasn't a HUGE fan of Basketball when he got drafted (Yes, I was watching and did almost puke when Phi-Slamma-Jamma lost the heartbreaker, but this WAS 25 years ago or so), and none of the people that would have been involved in that are still around (Oh, and I'm a Houston fan ) I'm sure there are some out there that feel this way about us though, I can't change that, nor blame them, even if I can't testify to the truth of it. Is this accepted belief, that we tanked back then to get him? This was Pre-Lotto, I assume, and if it is part of what brought the lotto system about, I have to concur it was the right move. I have heard it before, and would have to lend SOME consideration to the point... however distasteful. It doesn't change my opinion of the title of this thread, or what should or should not be done... or the fact that if we did undeniably tank now that I'd lose some respect. No I don't hate the spurs, really. They are an incredible team, and I really like Duncan's ability/game. I just don't like the way they got theirs, and don't agree with the practice of throwing games... it doesn't help that they've been a bit of a rival for a long while. I can admit that too, but it doesn't change my opinion of tanking. I'm against it, and would lose some amount of respect for a team that does it... as I did for the spurs when I was WATCHING Them tank and then scam. I know I'm the minority here, but some of the points I refuted earlier are more the reason I've posted at all. Aside from that, I'm just against taking. have I mentioned that? If we are viewed as a lesser champion from before for this reason (perception, reality or otherwise) isn't that all the more reason to AGREE with what I'm saying?
Well I suppose you and I could pull a Tonya Harding and go around thunking all our other players in the knee cap so our rookie can start and play major minutes. The ONLY reason that Luther got significant playing time this year was because of INJURIES. That was from JVG himself. You know that.
Don't forget Ralph Sampson, guys. We shamelessly tanked to get him the year before we got Dream as well. What do we have to show for it? 3 finals appearances, two rings. Regarding winning the lotto without the worst record in 2002: for all we know, those few extra ping pong balls from the late season tanking were the winning numbers. Oh yeah, Cleveland shamelessly tanked to get Lebron, no question about that. They won like 17 games, but were talented enough to win 25 at least. They had Big Z, Ricky Davis, Boozer, Darius Miles and some other decent players. They were also relatively healthy, at least compared to the rockets this year. Now Denver in 2003 really was terrible. Juwan was their best player, and Camby played 29 games. Ryan Bowen averaged 16 minutes per game.
Lose Lose Lose ... makes sense. It's just possible to sit there and root root root against 'for' the Good Guys.
The ONLY reason??? He started also because he is GOOD! Good enough to edge out Wesley? No! But good enough to start when Wesley is down. So, you assume everyone will be healthy next year? I hope you are right, but I also hope the world will have total peace for the next 2000 years too. Even if you think we are healthy, you assume the rookie (#6-10 pick) will never get a chance and get buried on the bench? Again, you think JVG is either moron or a computer programmed to kill rookies. He is human, and if the rookie is good enough, common sense will tell JVG to use him heavily, even start sometimes during the season.
He's good enough because THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE. .........................................."Our bench is obviously inexperienced," Van Gundy said. "We're playing two rookies off of there. We're either really inexperienced or really old off our bench." Having declared that there is nothing worse than "losing old," Van Gundy chose a youth movement. He insisted, however, that he is not giving away minutes in an apprenticeship program. "If it's not best for tonight's game, you don't do it," he said. "I think the biggest misguided notion on the development of players is to give them something they don't deserve. "If you start giving guys minutes they have not earned, you're teaching them you don't have to earn it to get something. It's the worst possible thing you can do for a young player. The only thing you give them is what they earn." Van Gundy once lamented having to give Head playing time he had not earned after the backcourt was overrun by injuries. But Rafer Alston, the starting point guard, and Barry have since come back. Head, however, has continued to get consistent playing time. "Coach has had the confidence to put me in," Head said. "I'm trying to go out and bring some energy." Head, who had played early in the season because of injuries, has struggled with his shot. In the 10 games prior to Friday, he had made 19 of 46 shots. But he went 4-of-11 on Friday, including two fourth-quarter 3-pointers. "My only frustration is he's not making (shots)," Van Gundy said. "He's sitting out there wide open game after game, and he's not making. But as long as Luther competes hard, I have no problems. I think there have been too many valleys in his competitive nature this year, some very high moments and some very low moments. "He's got to have an edge to him. You can't be a midget guard and not be of great competitive spirit and fight. That's how (David) Wesley's lasted forever in this league." ........................................and another................................... No time to tweak Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy said he has no plans to experiment with his rotation with the Rockets' playoff chances heading toward the long-shot category. "We're playing to win with no other consideration," Van Gundy said. "To mix in or 'develop' the young guys, I don't know. I'm going to play the guys that in my mind give us the best chance. But those guys have not changed." "The only one that hasn't gotten a shot is ( Maciej) Lampe. And yet, I think we're playing the guys that give us the best chance to win. The only decision I ever have is Chuck ( Hayes), Stromile ( Swift) or Deke ( Dikembe Mutombo), what two of three or what one of three (to play), but Chuck I think at times gets short-changed." Other than Lampe, Van Gundy said every player has had an opportunity to earn more playing time, though he said Hayes has actually played better when playing less. "When given consistent minutes, he hasn't performed as consistently as when given inconsistent minutes," Van Gundy said. "When given inconsistent minutes, he's been great."
There you go. It's not what you quote, it's what you highlight. These have proven my point. Even based on JVG's philosophy, Head has been good enough for JVG to put him in.
He was the best we had. We are missing the playoffs and likely getting a top ten lottery pick. The only good things to come out of this season is the development of Luther and the development of Yao. I'm sure Van Gundy would have preferred for Wesley and TMac to be healthy and not have had to develop Luther so much. It's just not his style. And there you go.......picking out Luther as your example that Van Gundy will play and develop rookies......in a year with more injuries than any other year in the history of Rockets basketball. What a joke. Develop rookies? He didn't have a choice. It was play Luther or play 4 on 5 while he trekked up to Milwaukee and banged on Latrell's door until 3 am when all the smoke clears out of the house and Spree comes to his senses long enough to hear the racket.
Hmm... didn't JVG also played Luther alot when Tmac and Wesley were both healthy? He was playing the backup 2 while DA was lamenting on the bench and then traded. LOL, I think there is no point to argue over Luther anymore. I'll let you off the hook. What are we arguing anyway? Too much time wasted. I agree Luther got an early chance due to other's injury, and as good as this kid is, he'll essentially shine sooner or later. If you want the Rockets to trade the pick for a starter, you do have a case. Washington traded their #5 pick (Harris) for Jamison, and it worked out well for them. However, Charlotte also traded their pick (Kobe) for Divac, so it goes both ways. The draft could be dangerous and unsure, but it's also the ultimate source for potential superstars, and first year allstars. You just never know. It all depends on the scouting and management. Whatever we do, I hope we come up on top.
