You're living in the past. Nowadays, two years IS a college career. Look at what you're asking of him. He rode the bench his freshman year, playing behind current NBA player David Lee. He gets his first real chance this year, and puts up a solid 14 ppg, 7 rpg, and 2 bpg in about 25 mpg. He gets better throughout the year, and leads his team to a NCAA title. By today's standards, that's a good college career. Now you're basically saying that you'll only be impressed if he goes out and wins it again. Then you go on to endorse two guys, Aldridge and Gay, who have hardly done more in terms of winning or dominating on your all-important college level. Gay basically sleepwalks through games at a time. Aldridge proved that he himself is very raw offensively as well. His numbers are very comparable to Noah's (15 ppg, 9 rpg, 2 bpg, 33 mpg). In regards to athleticism and ball-handling, Noah has shown both of those throughout the course of the year. How many blocks and impressive dunks does he have show before you at least admit he's athletic? I don't know why you value ball-handling so much for a PF, but he has also shown that he can do that as well. He was very comfortably breaking the press. I'm not sure who I would pick between Noah and Aldridge. But it's ridiculous to so vehemently declare that Noah will be a bust. He's a bit more of a project, but that doesn't mean he's garbage. You seem to be stressing NBA readiness a little too much. Anyone who's staying in school is better to you. Noah is at most a year or two behind in terms of development compared to all those other guys. But, if we draft Sheldon Williams, is he going to supplant Juwan from the starting gig next year? Not with JVG at the helm. Answer me this: If your boy McRoberts comes out this year, and there is a decent chance he will, would you draft him over Noah?
I want to lose all the rest of these games with Yao continuing to average the beastly 30 and 13 type numbers he's been putting up lately. It would be nice if Head could continue to show progress and improve his shooting and playmaking, too. That would be the best of both worlds... or all three worlds, depending on how you look at it. ... Is that possible?
It's so hard to sit watching games hoping we lose them!!! what kind of joy is there in that?? Next season seems like forever away...how long are the next 7 months gonna be? at least its summer in the States, its gonna be freakin cold here from now til at least September... Oh the depression.
What's the point in comparing his per-game stats with other collegians, when he's only getting 24 mpg this season? Noah's numbers per 35 minutes look quite good. Here's a comparison with some other PF prospects: Code: pts/35 TS% ast/35 reb/35 blk/35 stl/35 to/35 Joakim Noah 19.9 67% 2.9 10.0 3.4 1.6 2.7 Sheldon Williams 19.8 64% 1.1 11.2 4.0 1.8 2.6 LaMarcus Aldridge 15.6 60% 0.6 9.5 2.0 1.4 1.7 Tyrus Thomas 16.7 64% 1.8 12.5 4.2 1.4 2.5
To be fair, Aldridge plays with more talent around him. Gibson, Tucker, Buckman, all get plenty of touches and take care of a pretty equal share of the scoring and rebounding. Between him and Tyrus, who's an NBA project right now, I'd say Aldridge is the safest pick. Sheldon Williams carries a lot of that front court load at Duke so his #'s don't indicate as much. Noah's gonna be a backup. Product of tourney hype. That was the worst NCAA tourney I can remember. So yeah, Aldridge or Thomas if we get to pick on of the top NCAA big men. I haven't seen the Italian Dirk guy so I wont pretend to know what I'm talking about there.
OKOK, if you think any team can draft a player that will start right away in a low lottery pick, keep dreaming. I'm not gonna wake you up. Just make sure you make your bed when done.
Why do you think I am advocating trading the pick? I don't think Van Gundy will start any player in this draft, even if they were the #1 overall pick.
Clutch, I haven't read the rest of the thread after you're initial post, but I just wanted to say that this thread is proof that people from the team read the boards.
So you were among the people who were advocating trading Yao Ming for Finley/Odom? Both Finley/Odom were starters and would have started for the Rockets.
I hate the tank idea. There's no pride in that, no matter what it gets us. Play your best, take what you get. You never know, the results might be better that way in the long run, and selling your pride for a chance at subverting and getting over isn't worth it. I will lose respect (and nearly did watching the Jailblazer game last night) if it seems we tank deliberately. Now then, losing legitimately is still a posibility, and while I don't hope for it, if it happens, then we get whatever better chance at a better pick without choosing to give our dignity up. I've said this elsewhere, but it bums me out that people see tanking as a viable option and have no qualms about it.
Actually, there is nothing wrong with trading picks for veterans, I am not trying to argue with you on that. The fact is, the Rockets need talent, preferably young talent. If they tank it good, drafting a player like Roy/Brewer/Brewer/Gay/Aldridge/Noah/Thomas would help. They will become solid starters in less than a half season and they will be solid for a long time. On the other hand, if you trade the pick for a guy like Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce or even Memo Okur + something, then I'm for it too. However, they need to be relatively young and can develop alongside of Yao and Tmac. To me, drafting any of those 7 guys I mentioned would help.
Pride? Where was the pride when they HAD the chance to make the playoffs? Where was the pride when either/both Yao and Tmac was down, our other players couldn't steal a few wins? Now we are out of the playoffs, we are talking about pride? Where was the pride when the Spurs tanked to get Duncan? How shameful! Where was the pride when the Rockets tanked to get Yao? How shameful! Where was the pride when the Cavs tanked to get LeBron? How shameful! Guess what, you will get your pride when we win a championship, not when we are out of the playoffs. Right now, the proudest thing we can do is to suck it up and build a contending team for next season.
Less than a half season?!?!?!???? Dude, we're talking about Van Gundy here. Why is it that veteran posters like you and Gater all of a sudden think that Van Gundy is going to drag in some sophomore kid and play him major minutes and make him a starter halfway through the season???? Like I've said before, I think we have to be realistic. It is more realistic to expect that Van Gundy IS NOT going to change on this, then that he is going to change on playing kids and letting them develop. Now, if he changes, I am all for drafting a Noah or Thomas, plugging them in, and forgetting about them. They WILL be better for this team from day 1 than what we have at the 4 now. But, if Van Gundy doesn't change, and more than likely he will not, then I am not for drafting some project and sitting them on the bench for 2 years playing garbage minutes behind Juwan and our other miscellaneous parts we have at shooting guard. That would be wasting the pick. If we get one of those top 5-7 picks, it has to produce a player that starts and gives us 30 quality minutes a night, period. Not another scrap minute guy. I certainly hope you are right about Van Gundy changing. But I just don't see it.
Anyone take a look at the latest standings? The 6th worst record has 44 losses, and the rockets, sitting at 11th worst, has 43 losses. If we can leapfrog 5 spots with 2 losses .... come on JVG: Chuck Hayes needs more playing time in crunch time to develop his game, you should rest Yao some. Oh I watch Boston pretty regularly too, and every game they win is by accident, Doc Rivers has suddenly inserted Gerald Green into the crunch time lineup. I'm pretty sure most of these teams are trying to 'develop young players.'
i may be wrong but hasnt JVG pretty much made the playoffs every year he has coached. the only time i can think of was when he quit on the Knicks in the middle of the season. therefore he has pretty much had low first round picks and they usually arent played as much form many reasons. so im pretty sure if we get a decent SG or PF they will probably see at least 25 min a game or so, which is about average for a rookie im guessing.
I could be wrong, but I remember JVG drafted a guy named Luther Head, and he plays for the Rockets now... I could be wrong, if I am, call me on it. Based on my hypothesize that this Luther Head is playing for the Rockets now, I think he's starting. He was drafted pretty low, wasn't he? If a guy drafted #24 can start, a guy in top 10 has a chance to start by next season's end, right? Look, it's all about the talent of that player. If he's good, he will start before it's long. If he sucks, he'll get buried on the bench. You are talking like JVG is controlled by this immortal law of universe of never play rookies. It all depends on what will happen. Injuries can happen, and often do happen (tell me about it). If we draft some guy and he's good enough, he has a chance to start. In fact, he might simply start over Head, who is a rookie this year.
JVG brings back Wesley, plays Juwan 38 minutes, and inserts Dikembe Mutombo into the lineup. This dood is not going to tank no matter what. He is going to try and win the rest of these games with extreme prejudice. The Timberwolves, Celtics, and Warriors have pretty much tossed in the towel, they are in full throttle tank mode. It makes me sick that the rockets are trying to win these meaningless games. Give me more lottery balls. Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay or Sheldon Williams would look pretty damn good in a rocket uniform next year.
I have no respect for anything the Spurs have accomplished because they are KNOWN to have tanked. Their 2.5 rings don't mean anything to me, for this very reason. Shameful indeed. The rockets did not play well before getting Yao, but I would not say they TRIED to lose, nor did we have the worst record in the league. This perfectly exemplifies the point that tanking doesn't necessarily get you what you want, as we did not have the worst record or the most PingPong balls that year.... someone else did and who did THEY end up with? I don't even know... but IF they TANKED to get first pick, and then watched us snatch Yao, how do you think THAT felt to the guys who might not have played their best? Honor and dignity sold for little to nothing. I don't know that the Cavs did or did not tank, but if they did, then I think of them the same I do of the spurs. My guess is that if they did, kharma will prevail...eventually. As for our pride when we had the chance to make the playoffs, I think you'd have to agree that this team has dealt with enough adversity to say that it wasn't primarily a lack of pride (If any lack at all) that has kept us from grabbing a playoff spot this season. Take the best two players off ANY TEAM for as long as ours were out (among our other injuries, etc.) and tell me if they would make the playoffs. I doubt it. Losing games deliberately doesn't even guarantee us a quality player, much less a championship, but does guarantee a lack of pride If we deliberately lose games to get a better chance at a player that might get us closer to a championship, I will have lost more respect for our team than if we never get there again. Will I still be a fan? Of course, I will just lose a certain amount of respect for them, just as I did the Spurs. Right now, the best thing we can do is play the season out, see where it lands, and expect that kharma will be in our court for holding on to principle and pride, knowing we tried our best. Careful selling out your principles to find the easy road, and be careful what you wish for. Winning isn't everything. Guess what... you say I will get my pride "when" we get our next championship? Pride in my team doesn't begin and end with another ring. I'm not a quitter, and I hope they aren't quitters either. I'm not saying we should run TMAC back out for the last games of the season if he's able, or that we shouldn't reduce Yao's minutes some, especially once mathmatically eliminated, but I am saying that tanking is tactless, and lacks character.... in my book. My guess is, JVG and his players feel the same way. At least, I can only hope so. Obviously not everyone agrees.
The rockets definitely tanked the end of the season that year. No doubt about it. And btw, the Spurs didn't have the worst record in the league when they won Duncan either. The Cavs did tank. As did the Nuggets that year. And so far, for those teams, and for the times that the rockets did it, kharma has been on the side of those who won the lotto or tanked. Now, were any of these teams intentionally losing games? No, I don't think so. And they weren't dogging it either(not intentionally). But they definitely weren't making an effort to put the best players on the floor that they could, which is what the rox should do. Reduce Yao's minutes, stop playing the old guys, and put it in cruise control. I mean really, Juwan, Dike, Wesley ... they gain nothing by playing the rest of the way, they already have their experience. If anything it just exposes them to needless injury. The young guys, yes, even Ming, could use a chance to develop some, if they even can.
How many people here seriously think the Rockets are purposely tanking? I know I don't. That said, JVG is going to coach a little differently now that the pressure of winning every game isn't as real. The Rockets players, I'm sure, are still trying to win the games. WIthout the motivation of the playoffs, maybe they aren't as sharp as they should be.
