Howabout that guy in the other thread? He was a convicted rapist only to have it turn out that the victim lied and the DNA in her wounds wasn't his. I agree we need to protect society but at the sametime we need to be very careful that in our zeal to punish the guilty we aren't also destroying the lives of those who are innocent.
I think my previous views on this have been very consistent. I distinguish the trial and the punishment. If innocent folks are being convicted, the onus should be on fixing the trials, not compensating with reduced punishments less than what the crime deserves.
I mean in regard to your criticisms of government wiretapping and other programs to monitor people. It seems to me that if you are concerned about government surveillance that would go hand in hand in with protecting the rights of the accused and those convicted. The basis of distrust of the government's surveillance, misuse and corruption, should lead to a skepticism regarding how the government carries out trials and punishment.
I see - you mean how my past statements would jive with the idea of a "predator" list (note, I did not address this in my previous posts). I see both sides on that one, but I tend to side primarily in "favor" of them simply because those being watched are past criminals. To a certain extent, they have forfeited some degree of rights. That being said, I don't think these lists are effective. I hope this makes sense - let me know if it does not and I will attempt to better articulate.
Yes the predator list is part of it but I would go further to say that if you are distrustful of government surveillance and how it might be used it seems to me you should be skeptical of how guilt and innocence are determined along with carrying out punishment. In both cases there are lots of possibility for abuse and ineptness.
Yes. No. I don't like the idea of compensating for human faults by reducing the available means of punishment. To the extent that the innocent man is declared guilty, any punishment is unjust.
Agree with you here also. If you have commited a crime you definitely forfeit some of your given rights.
Since punishment though is related to the crime the determination of guilt plays a role in the punishment. Any skepticism you have towards determining guilt should also apply to punishment.
We've discussed this before and I am not sure I agree. Again, not sure I agree. I don't have skepticism that execution is fitting for some (most) rape crimes.
Wow how is this even relevent to anything? I didnt click on your link just because I know you rarely add anything of value to discuss but I decided to give you the benifit of the doubt. I now wish I didn't. You must have a lot of time on your hands to be digging quotes from old threads and posting them here. Also way to take things out of context. I had to go back and search where that came from and found out was on the Obama Picking his nose incident. You basically said Olbermann was right and that all white people was racist just because "basso" posted a video of Obama picking his nose. Now that is quite a assumption to make about everyone because of one poster (who by the way i do not think is racist). This is what my quote was replying to. Now how does that relate to what I said or anything in this thread at all? I mentioned two cases (there are thousands more) where a REPEAT sex offender (I emphasize REPEAT here, they have been committed and found guilty by a court of law). My view here is these people need to be locked away for life if they commit rape or child abuse the first time. Do you disagree here? How many more innocent lives do we have see be taken away??? This has nothing to do with sample sizes or anything that you are trying to infer. These people have bene FOUND GUILTY by their peers in a court of law. Unlike you I have disagreed with other posters on here but on certain topics I can find common ground and agree with others. Anyways I would appreciate it if you cut out your antics. They are not contributing to any discussions and are pretty silly. Thanks
Just wanted to bring the thread back on topic. I live right in the middle of where all this is happening so the whole mood of the community is pretty somber. Also the arraingment for the suspect is tomorrow. I guess for the first time we can see what kind of evidence they have against this guy and how strong the case is. Rumors are they tracked the guy down by linking DNA or other physical evidence found on Chelsea's underwear which was found during the search for her. ------------------------ http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/03/02/the-search-for-chelsea/ The Search for Chelsea King March 2, 2010 - 12:07 PM | by: Adam Housley FOLLOW ADAM ON TWITTER Any time you cover a story like this it just breaks your heart. It should never happen to a family, to a young girl with so much ahead of her, but at this hour the search is on again in the rural area around Lake Hodges near San Diego. The lake and surrounding park is not unlike many other areas around our country, nestled in a nice neighborhood of surrounding foothills. A large community park with baseball and soccer fields is attached. It is here that Chelsea parked her car last Thursday and it is here that her father found that car with her cell phone and iPod still inside and his daughter nowhere to be found. Hodges Reservoir as it is known locally is on the San Dieguito River and offers a variety of recreational uses, including fishing, boating, bike and horseback riding, and picnicking. Dirt hiking, jogging and riding trails which Chelsea is thought to have taken, wind through ever-changing terrain and topography that goes from elevated vistas to marsh-like wetlands. According to a county website, when full, the reservoir has 1,234 surface acres, a maximum water depth of 115 feet, and 27 shoreline miles. Water levels are monitored weekly. This winter has been a wet one in Southern California, so locals tell me the lake is as full as they've seen it. You can tell the community has rallied around this girl and her family since she went missing. It seems like signs are on every corner and at the counter of every gas station and store in the area. Ribbons adorn trees not far from where crime scene tape wraps the trunks of others keeping people away from the ongoing investigation. More than 1,000 people have volunteered so far in the search and law enforcement, which includes the FBI, has hundreds on the case. We are told after he father found the car her ran down the nearby trails yelling out his daughters name, just the thought is heartbreaking. Her father Brent sent out this e-mail which can also be found posted in the area and online: Our beautiful daughter, Chelsea King, has gone missing. She is one of those GREAT kids. The ones that have HUGE dreams that make all of us smile. When she walks into a room, she lights it up with her energy. She is a 17 yr old Senior at Poway high school, currently taking 4 ap classes and carrying a 4.2 GPA. She is a very accomplished french horn player who plays in her school band as well as for the San Diego youth Symphony. She volunteeers her time through her peer counseling group at high school to assist others when they need help. She needs your help now. I am asking that everyone that reads this forward it to your entire database of friends, family and work. Additionally I need your help in building a campaign to keep awareness focused on finding our daughter. I am hoping that I can create shirts, cards, posters, websites, anything you can think of to keep her in the eyes of the public. I do not want to limit this to San Diego- I've attached a flyer and a picture we are handing out- please print it and do the same. Chelsea is a very strong, resourceful girl. Her future is unlimited, we just need to get her back. Thanks for all your prayers for Chelsea's safe return. It means everything to me and my family. As for the suspect John Albert Gardner III, 30, he was arrested on suspicion of murder and rape and currently sits in a San Diego jail cell.We are told iInvestigators found several pieces of unspecified evidence, maybe even Chelsea's underwear according to one family report. Gardner is no stranger to trouble. The 6 foot 2, 230 pound ex con, pleaded guilty in 2000 to molestation charges involving a 13-year-old girl and was possibly connected to fondling a 14-year-old girl a year earlier. Now detectives believe he is tied to the assault of a girl at this same park two months ago and maybe tied to a missing girl from last year in nearby Escondido. Next to searching for Chelsea, people here want to know how this guy walked the streets. (Photo caption: Chelsea King, who disappeared Thursday, is pictured in an undated photo posted by friends on a Facebook page devoted to her search)
so you're saying that if for every 1 million sex offenders who are released back to society, lets say 4 proceed to commit a violent crime, then all sex offenders shouldn't be released because there is a very big probablility that they will commit a violent crime?
This is always going to be an argument and a issue. But you can't simply not have any punishment for any crime if there is that slight chance the person is innocent. Crime rates will shoot through the roof if that was the case. Anyways I think rhadamantus put it very nicely "I distinguish the trial and the punishment. If innocent folks are being convicted, the onus should be on fixing the trials, not compensating with reduced punishments less than what the crime deserves."
No it depends on the crime. If that 1 million sex offender was all found guilty of RAPE or SEXUAL ABUSE OF a CHILD than YES! So not every sex offender since that term is just way too broad. We need to determine which sex crimes warrant to be locked away for life. I am not one to definie which crimes but I think most cases of RAPE, SEXUAL ABUSE of a CHILD warrant the person be locked away for life. These are heinous crimes and should be treated like murder.
