No. Brown went to the Clippers because of the challenge. Manning had made it known after the championship that he didn't want to ever have to play for Brown again.
Manning was rotting in Clipperland when Brown came to that franchise. Many had all ready labeled him as a disappointment. He contributed, but not as he was expected to contribute coming out of college. Let's not forget that eventually, Manning was traded to Atlanta for a washed up Dominique Wilkins. That should tell you something about Manning's trade value in the early 90's. Loy Vaught was a solid contributor for that Clippers team, but like many an ex-Clipper, he proved to be only an average player when he finally escaped L.A. He was old when he signed with Detroit, but still in the prime of his career. He rode the bench for the Pistons after signing a big free agent contract. Mark Jackson was the only player on that Clippers team that made a career once he got off the team. But mark my word, Jackson as a Clipper was not even in the same universe that Jackson the veteran plays in today. He was still very immature, often choosing to look for his own shot before looking for his teammates. After winning rookie of the year with the Knicks, Mark Jackson became an average NBA player until late in his career when he started surfacing among the league leaders in assists. The point is, the Clippers were a pretty sorry bunch and Brown had them in the playoffs twice, almost getting out of the first round on both occasions.
MacBeth, Calipari runs the Kansas offense better than Larry Brown did, just like Coach K tweaked much of Knights Passing Game. The Kansas offense is Calipari's offense. Calipari is a better recruiter. Calipari basically built not only UMass, but that entire conference to elilte status. I suggest you look at the record of UMass pre-Calipari before you dismiss him like that. Got to remember that Kansas had a history that made recruiting easier. As for Calipari's Nets record, he went from 26 wins and 35 games out of 1st place, to 43 wins, 2nd in his division and the 1st playoff for the Nets in 4 yrs. Then he makes the Marbury trade in the strike season, has no preseason, and they suck out of the gate, and he leaves. His turnaround of the Nets is similar to Brown. 2 yrs has little to do with his bball knowledge and teaching ability. He just learned that College is where he belongs, something that Brown hasn't really proven to not apply to him, as well. Brown failed at the Spurs and Pacers; imo, that is a fact, and his legacy, if you've followed it, really does not put that into question. With Brown, we are banking on him actually improving over the years. And Brown says he needed to improve. I'm not sold on him, like I was Day 1. I don't like the way he fled Philly the moment he heard about Rudy. I don't like the way he begged for consideration at NC. It's like he knows he is not a finisher, and wants to upgrade to easier things. I don't know, there's just something distasteful and self-serving about that. being the better coach, knowledge-wise, does not make you the better NBA coach like it often makes you the better college coach. imo, Dunleavy has a better NBA track record, all things considered, including the way he handles himself and the way he doesn't play himself as bigger than players. Like I say, on Day 1 I was for Brown. But now, it's like I'm second guessing the decision. Is this another example of Les reaching for guys in their twilight years who only have about 2-3 passionate yrs left in them... Drexler Barkley Pippen Rice How many twilight big names do we reach for? The first one worked, but that was unique given Clyde's relationship with Houston and Dream. Let's get back to that Houston relationship thing. That's why I'm leaning towards Dunleavy. <b>Dunleavy is not even 50 yrs old, yet</b> He'll stick around. He'll be loyal to the city. he'll know that CD is his boss. So, that makes him a better coach, right? Plus, we can guess that it was also an age thing. Why would UNC want a twilight yrs 62yr coach who has a track record of no commitment, even if he is a UNC alum and HOF coach. Larry Brown has been crying for that job for awhile, and he got no look whatsoever. UNC turned him down, not because he can't coach like Williams (surely that wasn't the case), but because he was not a better overall candidate...age and commitment and flakiness being right up there. No? You rate Roy Williams to Brown. Then rate a 49yr old Dunleavy to Brown.
Why would anyone rate Dunleavy to Brown???? Dunleavy has lost control of 2 count them 2 teams because of discipline problems. He couldn't control Van Exel and the Lakers, and he totally lost Sheed and the Jailblazers. I know AI had his problems under LB, but nowhere near the problems that Dunleavy had. Imo the last thing we need is a coach who can't keep his players under control. And the age thing is a joke, because most NBA coaches are only at a job 5-7 years anyway. I respect your opinion Heypartner, but I just don't understand why you are on Dunleavy's jock. Van Gundy lovers I understand because he is a defensive coach, but Dunleavy???? Over Larry Brown???????
Heyp I totally buy into your case for Mike Dunleavy snr (MD). In fact I think I coyly prefer him to Larry Brown (because of Brown's flakyness and unpredictability - left or right) and JVG (because he has not really proven himself save for a short stinct with NY). But my memory of MD is that of his days with Portland - he came accross a little bit too passive for. A coach is not what our present crop of players need. They need a stern hand only LB, PJ Carlisimo or Riley can dish out. We in transition - we don't need our nest coach to be here as long as Rudy was but long enough to help Yao, Steve and Eddy blossom into beautiful players (4-5 years). MD also reported cracked under pressure in Portland. A lot of demand will be placed on him here also - will he crack? I don't recall him to be a great teacher or groomer of young athletes. I would not mind as our next head coach but I will prefer he is #2 to Larry Brown for now. That said, please let the John Calapari thing go. That guy in mediocre as shown in post Camby era at Umass and his present stinct in Memphis. He is okay at best. It is an insult to LB to compare them.
hehe, just read the uproar over mentioning Calipari. You guys realize what he did at UMass he did at age 30, right? No, I didn't mean he's a better NBA coach. Or a candidate. I guess it sounded like that. That is not really up for debate, right? I'm just talking pure basketball knowledge and ability to implement systems...recruiting of course is part of that, but Brown benefitted from a great recruiting system already in place before he got to Kansas. It's equivalent to a coach coming to UT football. I guess I give much more credit to Calipari for taking a nothing school and making them elite. Quick, name a UMass player that did something in the NBA. Lou Roe?? Now, name Rhode Island players. How about Temple players. It's not really a recruiting issue as much as some might say. you guys really think Larry Brown is on the level of Knight, Coach K, Smith and the other greats? I'm not so quick to say that. RIET, tell me why you think Brown is so great, from a legend teacher/system guy prospective. And compare him to greats.
In all fairness to Dunleavy, I don't know many coaches that wouldn't crack under that scrutiny. It wasn't exactly his fault that his players spent that much time behind bars. He had difficulty controlling the situation because the front office wouldn't back him up and were looking for an excuse to fire him. He'll be in the top two under consideration. My order of consideration is: Larry Brown Mike Dunleavy JVG
MadMax, I don't neccesarily rate Van Gundy ahead of Silas in coaching, but I do think he is a better canidate for us. From what I hear (and mind you I could be wrong) Silas is a players coach, and not neccesarily a disciplinarian. Imo that is what we need, we need someone to come in and hold these guys accountable for their lame brain screw ups. We have had a players coach for the last 4 years, and it hasn't worked. Silas is a great coach, but imo not the right choice for this job. That is my concern with Dunleavy, we just don't need another coach who is " One of the guys".
btw: I do not advocate him as an NBA coach. I didn't mean that when I first brought him up...this is just about bball knowledge, teaching and implementing systems at the college level. Fegwu, Calipari didn't coach UMass after Camby. Further, he turned UMass around for several years before Camby even got there, and that was Lou Roe. Camby was a prize from the turnaround and Calipari took him to Player of the Year and #2 pick, and Camby showing up in the NBA as a softy shows that he got the most out of his players, like Coach K got out of Laettner and Ferry. Say what you want about Calipari you guys, but his is only 44yrs old right now. The guy knows his ball, and can teach a transition game that switches to motion as well as Brown.
All I want to know is when the Chronicle is going to wise up and hire MacBeth to write Rockets stories for them!
interestingly enough...calipari maybe browns replacement in philly.. http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/5955799.htm
phalanxes...haha You're like the Blinebury of cc.net, but good points. I like Brown alot, but I'm concerned about long-term because it's not like we'll be a championship contender in 2 years, so will his influence last beyond the few years he is here?
That seems like rumor. Calipari is looking at Pittsburgh, where he's from and was a 26-28yr old (or so) top asst coach.
Calipari is a great college coach because of his ability to recruit and his slick style impresses the parents. Unfortunatley, his ego and abrasive personality doesn't fit the pro game. Very few coaches in the NBA can yell and scream while maintaining their players' respect and attention. Larry Brown is one of them. Coaching is more than just x's and o's and running a system. It's the ability to make the team believe in your system and in each other. This team needs an identity. The Rockets love Rudy but do they listen to him? You can bet that Larry Brown will stomp on Eddie Griffin. You can bet Larry Brown will stomp on Moochie Norris. You can bet Larry Brown will force Steve and Cat to implement his system. You can bet Larry Brown will utilize Yao Ming at every opportunity and take advantage of his all around skills. You can bet Larry Brown will love Yao's fundamentals and make him the focal point of this offense. You can bet that Larry Brown will force the players to play as a team or they'll sit on the bench or be traded. They will listen to Larry Brown because of his reputation. He will make the Rockets a 50 game winner next season. Larry Brown is known for his impatience. If CD is there quell Brown's impulsive nature, this could be a really good fit.
Well, few coaches have ended up losing the ability to coach their teams as much as Brown. Larry Brown quit on David Robinson in the middle of Robinson's 3rd year. Got trounced by GS and Run TMC 3-1 the playoff before. So, if CD doesn't "quell Brown's impulsive nature," will he quit on Yao Ming, too? So, Dunleavy wouldn't? Look, if he "can take" Robinson to 56 and 55 games, a mere 7 game improvement is not that much for these Rockets. RIET, You totally misunderstood me as trying to say Calipari would be a better candidate for the Rockets. I was trying to say that Brown and Calipari have similar abilities at the college level. Brown had much better recruiting advantages than Calipari at UMass. If you play the "he had great recruiting" card, you must prove to me that his so-called studs performed in the NBA. None of Calipari's players have performed well in the NBA. None of them. Now, compare that to Brown and Larry Izzo. Brown went to UCLA with a senior Kiki Vandeweghe, who, arguably, is deserving of HOF. Then he gets Manning...who was capable of a big NBA career until injuries,,,certainly better than Camby. Now, Izzo is just rolling in NBA talent. Izzo is the great recruiter as much as Calipari. Brown always goes to very favorable settings. Calipari doesn't. Brown jumps ship on down seasons. Calipari doesn't.
First of all, forget Calipari. He's irrelevant. Dunleavy. Dunleavy flamed out in Portland, lost control of his players, his team, and the trust of management. Granted, Dunleavy was forced with Whitsitt's bad moves -getting Shawn Kemp, trading Jermaine O' Neal, etc... However, his players in Portland hated him. First he tried to play Mr. Nice guy, then tried to instill disicpline (until his players rebelled), then played Mr. Nice guy again, and we go round and round... He coached on the fly and desperately tried everything and anything but the ship was sinking fast and he was a lead weight. When the players hate you, it's over. Now fast forward to this team, searching for an identity, needing discipline. We need someone the players respect from day one. Not 1/2 way through the season, not in 2 years, but now. Larry Brown commands that respect. It's his way or the highway. Players will listen.
SLA, I'm fine with either Brown or Dunleavy. My first choice was Brown, but now I'm leaning towards Dunleavy based on recent happenings. Brown has quit on the New Jersey Nets 6 games before playoffs began to take the Kansas job, quit on David Robinson midseason, Reggie Miller, and now Allen Iverson, all for presumably better positions to progress his career. He makes me nervous, like he's getting desparate. Will he quit on Yao Ming, too? RIET, Come on, Larry Brown flamed out at SA and Indiana, too. He got trounced by freaking Run TMC in the first round with a stellar SA team, and had 39 wins in his last yr at Indiana, to see Larry Bird get 58 wins the next, and a Finals appearance the next. Brown jumped ship to give Iverson a try. Brown's coaching ability is without question, but his HOF legacy is built on going to perfect situations, almost where he couldn't fail...and he ultimately did fail. In the history of the real great coaches, I'll withhold judgement. The guy leaves right at the time when he could get blamed. I demand Brown to commit to being the teacher of Yao Ming through Yao's resigning and beyond. I don't have that confidence in Brown, but I do Dunleavy.
RIET, I agree 100%. In addition to this team needing someone that will command respect, they also need someone who will define ROLES. Larry Brown is the master at getting players to play a specific role and play within the confines of the system. I have no doubt in my mind that Brown will have these undisciplined, selfish players setting picks, getting teammates the ball in the right place, etc. If they dont, they'll be gone. Also, I agree that Brown could improve this team into a 50 game winner. This feat should not be downplayed as some are trying to do, this would be HUGE. The Rockets play almost 75% of their games against the Western Conference which consists of a bunch of tough teams. This is not like playing a bunch of garbage teams and loading up on a weak conference. Those 7 wins this past season would have been the difference between the Rockets not making the playoffs or being a top 5 seed. In this day and age of the Western Conference, going from 43 to 50 wins is not some easy task, but I have no doubt in my mind Brown can do it.
