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Minute Maid is GREAT, but could've been so much Better

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Houstunna, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    First off, easily a Top 10 ballpark (prob closer to Top 5) and not like anything can be done about it now.. but 2 flaws that happened....

    1) It should've been angled more toward downtown's real buildings. Pittsburg and Detroit look like beasts compared even though their buildings pale in comparison to HOU's.

    Sure, it would disturb the street grid, but they already one-laned Main St, which looks so low budget.

    2) The roof should have retracted MUCH MORE. Would've open things sooo much. It doesn't fully roll due to limited land, but it would've been well worth screwing up a couple streets in the downtown grid.

    Working in the Med Center a while back, I always met visitors from everywhere. They talked about the skyline like it was something they never saw or imagined Houstun as being. The stadium should've repped it with an easy CF view showing that great skyline. 90% of highlights should've been repping them buildings. The grid would've only been messed by 2 streets.. and even those roads could've been angled some kinda way to flow better. Roof could've retracted more within that 2-street area.

    Still, GREAT stadium regardless.
     
    #1 Houstunna, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  2. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    You do realize that there is another reason why most fields face a certain direction.... And it has nothing to do with the skyline.

    (Eh, I'll just help you out... http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/general/facts/diamonds/ Notice that no ballpark in baseball has their field oriented in the direction you desire).

    Also, you conveniently leave out the Union Station aspect of the ballpark... The repurposing and converting to the main Astros offices was a big part of the project (and doesn't really fit any other sort of configuration.)

    Lastly, were you there last Saturday? The entire stadium was bathed in sun. The roof rolls back completely behind the RF scoreboard. Not sure where else you want it to go... Rolling it further back would make no difference to the rest of the stadium.
     
    #2 Nick, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  3. Remix

    Remix Member

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    Swap Toyota Center and MMP locations and you would have an awesome skyline view
     
  4. marks0223

    marks0223 Astros STILL 2017 Champions
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    The suns angle is the reason for the direction of the field. Cowboys stadium didn't follow these simple rules, sun sets in an end zone and blinds the players near the end of a late afternoon game.
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Easy fix - install a large mirror that points towards the skyline buildings. That way, the fans can see the full skyline view in the mirror.

    OR, between innings they could show a picture of the skyline on the scoreboard - again, so fans can easily see it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Not the same land space.

    Also, people don't realize just how difficult it was to get MMP built... It barely passed, and everything from the design to the location to the construction costs were all very fixed aspects (and even then, it's the best stadium Houston has... By far... And has aged pretty well considering its 16 years old).
     
  7. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    Kool-Aid park would have been awesome. Oh yeah!
     
  8. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Other fields 1) don't have Houstun's beast skyline 2) other cities are probably rated where that should. HOU is underrating.. due to ignorance. There's serious reason to believe that's partly reason we have no NHL or NASCAR and other things Texas' Smaller City. Bullish. People just don't really know. Nerve racking when you know the real.

    I'm around construction often. Union's obstacle-ness is easily offset by a jack hammer and protractor.
    ____

    Interesting...
     
    #8 Houstunna, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  9. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    There was space. Nothing existed around a 2-3 block radius that couldn't easily be ousted. Bunch of parking lots, fields, and one-story buildings.
    ____

    Furthermore regarding angle... perhaps home plate could've been reconfigured to where the RF corner is. That would've showed more buildings, and would eliminate the shade needed from the LF stands to block the current sun angle... assuming the sun's angle was a factor.
     
    #9 Houstunna, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  10. MrBear1

    MrBear1 Contributing Member

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    TDECU Stadium has the best view of an stadium in town.
     
  11. Kam

    Kam Contributing Member

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    The roof would have been closed. We're not sitting in the sun. **** that ****.
    Like Nick said, the roof rolls over pass the big scoreboard already.
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    No. Read my post again and click on the link. There is not a single park with home plate facing west for a reason (the GD sun!!!). It's in the freakin MLB rule book. That is the only configuration that would have allowed a downtown view.

    The only solution for that would be to build the park in an entirely different place. Again, read my other post that discusses how difficult it was to get a downtown ballpark actually approved. They did not have carte Blanche/unlimited space constraints/etc. there was also a possibility of actually having the old rail lines to union station functional and part of the design (eventually scrapped due to politics). The union station site was the key to why the ballpark was placed there.

    I appreciate your interest/passion in this city... But don't be ignorant when it comes to basic facts.
     
  13. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    The sun cheated us

    George R Brown's proximity also disallowed MM's being built a couple blocks south. Union Station would've been in the CF corner instead of LF.

    Still say the roof could've retracted more. There's space using the same land it currently sits. Would open more sky if it rolled passed the back wall of RF.
     
  14. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Not really. I don't think you appreciate how massive the roof structure really is, and the support that is needed to keep it upright.

    As it is, the support tracks do extend well past the stadium structure itself, in order to move the roof completely past the playing surface. It's actually 3 separate moving pieces that can all move independently of each other (but are obviously synced to move as a cohesive unit).

    The only thing moving the roof back more would accomplish is that you don't see as much of the roof superstructure if you're sitting at home plate/3b side on the lower level... And even then, the amount of sky that is above the playing field and stadium directly would be the same.

    Also, do you know why the roof is shaped (in an arc) the way it is? It's to simulate the path of a HR ball. They could have put a flat roof (like the one that sits in safeco and Marlins park), and that would have further been aesthetically unpleasing.

    So, in many ways, the roof is a work of art... And a standing homage to the game of baseball itself. You're always complaining that Houston doesn't have nice things or doesn't appreciate history... Well I appreciate the fact that MMP is still the finest retractable roof stadium in baseball, and given the heat issues that are already starting to come upon us, I wouldn't have wanted any other sort of park built. (It's the one thing those losers from the north of 45 are envious of... Especially when they are playing day games in 100 degree weather in Arlington).
     
    #14 Nick, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  15. dumbartonbass

    dumbartonbass Contributing Member
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    What on earth are you talking about "roll the roof past the back wall of RF"? There is no obstruction when the roof is fully retracted. The stadium isn't a transformer.
     
  16. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Roof stops parallel with the scoreboard. It adds like 50' above the scoreboard making the stadium seem more enclosed. They should've let it keep rolling more.

    Still, great stadium (and the best retractable roofed). I just think Houston wasn't repped as well as it could've been. People don't even realize how big H is. The skyline beasts. Fortunately, we're getting more national events... NCAA tourney, All-Star weekends, and SBs.
     
  17. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    You must have a major inferiority complex.

    Houston gets the requisite attention for a top 10 media market (albeit, its #10), which is largely based on surrounding area. Unfortunately, Houston is so big/spread out... there aren't a lot of populated neighboring communities that get lumped into the market. Basically, Houston just simply grows from within... and will slowly increase in size in that respect.... and that's entirely unique to all other top 10 media markets.

    As it is, its expected to pass Chicago eventually for #3 metro. And the media size will stay stable as long as there is metro growth. They've had multiple ASG, NCAA final fours, and now multiple SB's in the last 10-12 years, all for a city that isn't really a tourist destination like San Diego, Miami, New Orleans, LA, or NY... that is damn good.

    As far as the roof goes... like someone said above, its not a transformer. There are structural/physical limitations to where it goes. It rolls back as far as any other roof that's ever been constructed in any stadium.... and still allows for the grass to be maintained, and for sun to hit the entire field (unlike some other retractable roof stadiums).
     
    #17 Nick, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  18. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    Both of Houston stadiums suffered by being some of the first (if not the first) retractable roof stadiums. Technology (lessons learned) improved after the fact and the newer retractable roof stadiums have benefited.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Yes, and no.

    NRG was exceeded by Glendale in terms of the ability to grow grass... but Cowboy Stadium spent too much time trying to pay homage to the old Texas stadium, and really doesn't feel that different when the roof is open (whereas NRG does allow enough sunlight to get half the stadium uncomfortable to where they never open the roof ever).

    As it is, retractable roof stadiums for NFL teams really serve no purpose... they're never open.

    In regards to baseball, there's been two retractable roof stadiums opened since MMP was built... Miller Park and Marlins park. Miller Park opened the very next year (2001), so there were no technological improvements made (even though they have a very unique roof setup).

    Marlins park opened in 2012... 12 years after MMP... and having been there, I can say its inferior in almost every single aspect (including the look of the roof when open and closed). Everything, from its location to the tacky seating colors to the exterior appearance leaves a lot to be desired... and then you read about how they basically swindled the county into paying for it, and it may very well be the WORST of any new stadium ever built.

    Every other retractable roof stadium (Chase, Skydome, Safeco) also show marked deficiencies when it comes to their setup. None of them are perfect. Hell, the D-backs want out of Chase unless they get it renovated.

    MMP isn't perfect... but they did get it right.
     
  20. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    What you failed to realize is the skyline has filled around MMP. More and More building have filled in the view.
     

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