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Minnesota Twins 1961-2001?

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by North Star, Nov 2, 2001.

  1. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    Perhaps the people of Minnesota and the politicos in Minnesota realize how much stadiums are economic losers even for the community in which they are located.

    Independent study after independent study has shown that these stadiums do not create economic development. Even the jobs that are created tend to cost in excess of $125,000 each, compared to around $6,250 per job cost for jobs created by groups like the Maryland Economic Development Fund.

    Even when counting on revenues created by the stadiums themselves to pay the bond debt, the community can be hurt. The money spent at a stadium is just money that would've been spent somewhere else - usually within the same taxing district (not necessarily, though. For instance, St. Paul's arena may well take some of the money that would've been spent in Minneapolis. But it's a wash for the metro area as a whole). So taxes collected the stadium would've been collected somewhere else had the stadium not been there.

    And adding the public debt necessary to fund these stadiums can cause interest rates to increase for the taxing entity (the more debt a community has, the greater the risk of default), potentially taking away the community's ability to fund other community services.

    Based on economic issues alone, stadiums are essentially always losers (that's not to say there can be other reasons to support a stadium project. It can be a quality of life issue. It can be sold as an anchor for redeveloping a part of town even though the end result will be an economic loser for the area as a whole, and so on).

    Of course, I still often support these projects because I likes the big buildings.
     
  2. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    The one argument pro-stadium folks always have in income taxed states like Minnesota is the amount of tax dollars they'll lose if sports goes away. For instance, for every game A-Rod plays in Minnesota, the state collects over $10,000 in tax revenue from him.
     
  3. North Star

    North Star Member

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    Twins could be eliminated today
    Jim Souhan, Sid Hartman and Neal St. Anthony
    Star Tribune

    Published Nov 6 2001

    CHICAGO -- The Twins and Montreal Expos could be eliminated today at the Major League Baseball owner's meetings, and contraction plans have progressed to the point where a dispersal draft for those teams' players has been discussed.

    The only development that could save the Twins would be owner Carl Pohlad having a change of heart and asking commissioner Bud Selig and the other owners to rescind their contraction plans, according to persons familiar with the situation.
    Pohlad, reached at his Edina home, said: "I really have no comment. I don't know what they're [the owners] going to do tomorrow. Nobody knows."

    Minneapolis business people interested in negotiating a local acquisition of the Twins said they're hopeful Pohlad and Major League Baseball will give the Twin Cities time to help them pull together a deal.

    "I'm going to see what happens Tuesday and if they don't vote or if they delay a vote ... we've got to try and get people together," said attorney Michael Ciresi . "I'm willing to put in the shoe leather to do it."

    In an another development, the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission on Monday sent a message to Major League Baseball threatening to sue to enforce the team's one-year lease at the Metrodome.

    Asked if there will definitely be a vote today, Selig told a Chicago Tribune reporter: "I don't know. This is a subject that will generate much discussion. We will have discussion in the morning, discussion in the afternoon, and I'm not going to rule out any possibility.

    "It is a very serious option that a lot of work has been spent on, as you know. It really came from the owners themselves. Let's see how this plays out."

    Paul Beeston, Major League Baseball's chief operation officer, would say only, "We'll see what happens tomorrow. That's all I can say."

    While the owners have positioned themselves for a dramatic and historic vote -- no major league team has been eliminated since the 19th century -- two viewpoints of today's events have emerged:

    Persons close to Pohlad cautioned that even though he sounded sure of his decision on Monday, he is capable of changing his mind. Pohlad is said to have been appalled at the negative publicity his consideration of contraction has engendered in the Twin Cities.

    Others believe that baseball's planning for contraction has been so thorough and detailed that it would be difficult for Pohlad to back out now.

    Pohlad said recently that baseball has had 10-12 lawyers working on contraction all summer. The dispersal draft apparently has been worked out. And a plan exists that would have Expos owner Jeffrey Loria taking over the Florida Marlins, and Marlins owner John Henry taking over the Anaheim Angels.

    Such a series of events would address four of baseball commissioner Bud Selig's most nagging problems -- the Expos' unpopularity in Montreal, the Twins' inability to build a new stadium, Disney's unhappiness with running the Angels, and the failure of the Marlins' current ownership to field a competitive team in South Florida.

    Legislative leaders have asked Major League Baseball for a delay and indicated that a new ownership group would have more credibility with a Legislature that still smarts from go-rounds with Pohlad over a stadium grant that was really an $80 million loan, and the bogus threat to sell the team to a North Carolina businessman.

    The Legislature this year turned down a deal under which Pohlad offered $100 million toward a $300 million stadium and private interests said they would contribute at least another $50 million.

    Ciresi said that, if the Twins are to be saved, Gov. Jesse Ventura will have to step into the fray. Ventura has said the public should not help billionaire owners build ballparks for millionaire players.

    However, in an interview Monday night on the Jason Lewis radio show, Ventura advocated legalizing sports betting as a way of financing a new stadium. "It's already a $2 billion industry in the state," he said. "Let's put up a book at the Mall of America," and let the federal government "come and try to shut us down."

    Said Ciresi, who was in New York Monday: "Leadership is not just sending back tax rebates to people. If it was [former governors] Arne Carlson or Rudy Perpich, we'd get something done. He's got the bully pulpit."

    Stadium backers have looked at financing schemes that, once private commitments are made, would include metropolitan-area sales taxes, casino proceeds and revenue sources other than income taxes or property taxes.

    Banker Jim Campbell, one of the leaders of the business group proposing a buyout, said earlier that buying the team makes no sense, unless Major League Baseball institutes salary caps and revenue sharing schemes that make it easier for small-market teams to compete with less revenue from TV and advertising contracts.

    Baseball has limited revenue sharing, but no salary cap. Large-market owners have frowned on expanding revenue-sharing, and the players union has resisted the idea of a salary cap.

    Pohlad is scheduled to arrive this morning at the Chicago Hyatt O'Hare, where the meetings will be held, along with his son Jim and team president Jerry Bell. Selig also is scheduled to arrive this morning.

    The meetings will consist of an executive committee meeting in the morning and a full ownership meeting in the afternoon.

    The meetings are expected to break up by no later than 5 p.m. If the meetings adjourn without a final decision, that doesn't necessarily mean a reprieve for the Twins -- the owners sometimes vote via conference call at a later date when they have left issues unresolved.

    One part of the equation that remains in doubt is the size of the check Pohlad would collect if he accepted contraction. Reports have ranged from $150 million to $250 million.

    Pohlad, 86, bought the Twins for $38 million in 1984.

    Baseball's work on a contraction plan has reached the point where owners and their representatives have begun mapping out a dispersal draft for the Twins and Expos players.

    According to reports in the Beaver County (Pa.) Times and South Florida Sun-Sentinel, one plan would allow Loria to bring three players off the Expos' 40-man major league roster to the Marlins, and allow Henry to bring three Marlins players to the Angels.

    Under that plan, both owners would be able to retain five minor-leaguers not on the 40-man roster. Also, the Loria-led Marlins and Henry-led Angels could share the top four picks in a possible dispersal draft of the players in the Twins' organization plus the remaining players under the Expos' control.

    -- Staff Writer Sally Williams and the Chicago Tribune contributed to this report.


    I like the idea of using sports betting funds to build a new ballpark for the Twins. What is Ventura waiting for?
     

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