Minister beaten after clashing with Muslims on his TV show

I'm sorry, you are saying that my position on religion is based upon limited info?

I mean honestly, that is funny, because to me all religion is based upon some made up text written by man...and if that isn't limited, I don't know what is...

Contradictions in the Quran web page - an interesting read

DD

 

To put to rest comments about the inconsistency of Muhammad PBUH's message:

1) The Qura'an was not given as one piece. As things happened, verses came down.

So, for example, if someone committed adultery, this was addressed with some verses.

If someone attacked the Muslims, then it was addressed with more verses.

That is why there appears to be an inconsistent tone. Because they are responses to real life situations.

This is why the tone in some places is forgiving and other places more aggressive. Because it is not a letter. It is not a book with one topic. It is a multi topic book, with each sentence/paragraph given by Allah to Gabriel to Muhammad PBUH at different times.

To give an analogy... If I ask you how to treat a poor man, you will most likely give me advice on how to be kind. But if I come to you next month and tell you a burglar broke into my house, your advice may be more aggressive. If I compiled these two pieces of advice into one book and said that this is the advice you gave me, your mood would seem to be inconsistent.

If that is the inconsistency you are talking about, then yes, it is "inconsistent". Muhammad PBUH had a role very different to Jesus PBUH. Personally, and according to Islam, the Prophets of Allah all preached Islam. The MAIN Prophets had messages which were all the same but with varying scope - i.e. Abraham with the most broad and Muhammad PBUH (the final prophet according to Islam) with the most detailed. Then there were Prophets before Muhammad PBUH who preached different sides of Islam as well. Based on these beliefs, it makes absolute sense to me, personally, that Jesus preached a more loving and consistent message.

In that sense, I actually agree that Muhammad PBUH's message was tailor-made to his circumstances. Whether he was altering this or Allah was is a different topic altogether. But from Islam's point of view - yes, Allah's message was descended in pieces according to the circumstances. It was not a "thinking out loud" situation.

 

Next time, a bunch of christian men go on a jihad, hijack some planes and crash it to kill as many innocent people as possible including themselves, to get 1000 virgins. Or if the pope starts sending choir boys every week to muslim supermarkets to blow themselves up and every child and mother in the area for working on Sunday. I'll agree if that happens.

Our men and women are being killed every day by these muslims in the name of Allah.

 

How do you reconcile in the Koran it talks about how many bones were in a Human body and it was later discovered to be wrong.

I mean, wouldn't God get it right?

DD

 

Yugoslavia was composed of ethnic and religious groups that had been historical rivals, even bitter enemies, including the Serbs (Orthodox Christians), Croats (Catholics) and ethnic Albanians (Muslims).

In April 1992, the U.S. and European Community chose to recognize the independence of Bosnia, a mostly Muslim country where the Serb minority made up 32 percent of the population. Milosevic responded to Bosnia's declaration of independence by attacking Sarajevo, its capital city, best known for hosting the 1984 Winter Olympics. Sarajevo soon became known as the city where Serb snipers continually shot down helpless civilians in the streets, including eventually over 3,500 children.

Bosnian Muslims were hopelessly outgunned. As the Serbs gained ground, they began to systematically roundup local Muslims in scenes eerily similar to those that had occurred under the Nazis during World War II, including mass shootings, forced repopulation of entire towns, and confinement in make-shift concentration camps for men and boys. The Serbs also terrorized Muslim families into fleeing their villages by using rape as a weapon against women and girls.

*insert clever, sensitive, baiting joke about virgins and infidels*

Don't be casting stones people...

 

Sir,

1) The Qura'an does NOT support killing innocent people. Whether someone does it in the name of Islam or not is unimportant... islam does not allow this. Just like Christianity doesn't allow this. If you hold a cross and murder someone while claiming it is for Christianity, I would say you are anything but a Christian and Jesus Christ would be ashamed of you. In the same fashion, any Muslim will say to those who kill innocent people that it is wrong.

What we can't control is what the media shows you, the quality of educaton with the level of poverty in the Middle East, and how the corrupt people take advantage of the oppressed. There are more poor people, more oppressed people, more angry/corrupt people and less media influence in the Middle East than any other region in the entire world.

2) Can you show me where you figured that your people are being killed every day by Muslims? I would be interested in having that information. If you exaggerated this, then let me know if you don't mind. I think it's important for this to be confirmed.

 

Not sure I've seen this. Could you point it out to me?

 

I guess american lives don't count for deaths by muslims. Here are the american ones.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/

If you want the rest of the casualties, you will have to google it. It's not a small segment of the population, when you have the majority of whole countries like Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan wanting to kill us. Then you have Pakistan government and locals supporting the Taliban on the sly.

 

lmao! are u iffing serious man? u r pissed off cause countries we occupy or threaten to bomb the shiat outta them are fighting back against us?

ya lets just bomb them and b**** about how they fight back against the american vampire, i mean how dare they!

 

They used the airlines as their own personal bombs. The Taliban said they would do kill more Americans. This was before we attacked Afghanistan. we are just protecting our homeland by going after them.

 

The fact is no one in the media or public cares about black on black crime.

 

A) This is a pretty whiny stance to take for the attacker of Afghanist and, Iraq and soon Iran. I agree with God's Son.

We're saying blowing up innocent people is wrong regardless of circumstances right? I assure you more innocent people have died in Afghanistan and Iraq than died on Sep 11.

If you insist on talking about Americans, I assure you that Americans have killed each other more than they have been killed by other people since Sep 11. But I digress....

B) This is the central flaw of most arguments - the inability to dettach Christianity from America and the inability to dettach Islam from the Middle East/Arabs/Terrorists. We are not talking about America, and btw Al Qaeda is not the foremost authority, contrary to your belief, on how to do things Islamically lol. Neither is Saddam and neither is anyone else. If you are going to judge the religion, then judge the book not the "teachers".

We are NOT talking about America and I won't comment further on America as it is such a vague word, which becomes very dangerous to use in these types of discussions.

 

Funny. The irony is the majority of these people support the dropping of the atom bomb in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. It's only okay if we kill other civilians.

Btw, for those that don't know, the dropping of the atomic bomb was not to save 1 million lives. That quote was entirely bull****. U.S. intel had predicted the war would end in a few months. We just wanted to drop it sooner so that Russia wouldn't have a chance to "aid" us in taking Japan.

 

Dada,

Just making sure you haven't forgotten this. I'm quite interested to know.

 

Sorry, been busy, I was refering to the number of joints listed in the Quran for the human body, and it's inaccuracy.

Link to a discussion about this claim

And where Mohammed probably heard it...

"What is the Source of Muhammad's belief that the human body has 360 joints?

If Muhammad's statement had been true, the next step of a proper ‘miracle test’ would have to be that we find out whether Muhammad was the first one to say that the human body has 360 joints. Getting this fact right could be amazing or even miraculous only if he had said something new or contrary to general opinion, not if he merely repeated what was a common belief at his time. Thus, although Abdallah didn't deem it important to investigate this question, we will ask: Have others made this claim before the time of Muhammad?

A quick search on the internet yields the answer effortlessly. In fact, we wonder how Osama was able to find his three alleged "scientific sites" without at the same time finding those other pages mentioning "360 joints" that should have made him suspicious. Why did he just ignore those? Roughly 850 years before the time when Muhammad claimed prophethood, we are told that the following was taught in Chinese philosophy:


In the Springs and Autumns of Lü Pu-wei (Lü shih ch'un-ch'iu, ca. 239 B.C.), ...

The next two examples of relations between the cosmos and the body are perhaps two centuries earlier, and are more general. They come from Lü shih ch'un-ch'iu. They are not particularly early in the history of microcosmic correspondences, but rather exhibit their full development in philosophical writing.

Human beings have 360 joints, nine body openings, and five yin and six yang systems of function. In the flesh tightness is desirable; in the blood vessels (hsueh mai) free flow is desirable; in the sinews and bones solidity is desirable; in the operations of the heart and mind harmony is desirable; in the essential ch'i regular motion is desirable. When [these desiderata] are realized, illness has nowhere to abide, and there is nothing from which pathology can develop. When illness lasts and pathology develops, it is because the essential ch'i has become static. ..."

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Conclusions from that paper about it:

The belief that the human body has 360 joints was already nearly a millenium old at the time of Muhammad and may even have been common knowledge in Muhammad's environment.
No supernatural revelation is needed to determine the number of joints. A complete and detailed autopsy may be a tedious task, but it was perfectly possible to do so in Muhammad's time.
Muhammad's claim about the number of joints is wrong in two respects:
Muhammad's assumption that all humans have the same number of joints is wrong.
Muhammad's claim that the human body has 360 joints is wrong also for the average adult person.
Muhammad's statements on the issue are at best very imprecise, but more likely they are plain contradictory. Therefore they can hardly be considered as scientific statements. We do not even know whether he is talking about bones or joints.

DD

 

Ah, so flushing a book down the toilet is justification for retaliation? That sounds pretty extreme to me.

As for the rest of this debate, there is a fallacious assumption floating around here that Islam (or Christianity) has some sort of inherent meaning that can be undermined by corrupt leaders. There is no "correct interpretation" of these religious texts. There are only the various interpretations and actions of their followers. A radical Jihadist is no more or less of a Muslum than Hakeem Olajuwon is.

There is no evidence for any particular religious belief, so there can be no correct interpretations.

 

I believe another fallacy is that the Quran has not been edited or that the original books have not been altered etc....IIRC the oldest copy of the book is from the late 700's like 770-80 or something, which would be more than 100 years after Mohammed lived....

DD

 

Did you read the first few lines on the link you posted? Osama Abdallah? Are you serious? It seems you are really having issues with determining the credibility of your sources. I've never seen someone post so much bs about a religion before, you seriously need to consider getting someone to help you.

 

Did you read the paper? Do you have anything to refute what was said in it? Were the texts taken from the Qu'ran inaccurate?

I don't care what motivated the person to write the paper, only that it was an interesting read, and accurate in it's assessment.

DD

 

...that's because it wasn't compiled in written form until then.

It usually helps to do a little bit of research on the topic you are trying to 'expose'.