I find it extremely unlikely that Hilario, Wilcox, Borchardt all go top 7. Unless Dunleavy drops out, then everything goes haywire. Ming/Williams is a consensus top 2. Butler is high up there, as is Dunleavy. There's 4 right there. 3 more until 8-How about Drew Gooden, Nick the Tsick, and Dajuan Wagner? In that case, all 3 are at 8. What if Woods' stock rises again to top 7? Stoudemire? Any number of possibilities are there. If you're getting hurt offensively in the front court by a guy who can't shoot, then play Mo/EG together with the 3 guard. Also on Wilcox-he seems to be developing a 10-12 foot jumper, in your opinion would that be enough of an "offensive" game, in addition to the innumerable alley oop passes he would receive?
Originally posted by NIKEstrad I find it extremely unlikely that Hilario, Wilcox, Borchardt all go top 7. Unless Dunleavy drops out, then everything goes haywire. So so I, but it's a possibility. Are you willing to bet your frontcourt on it? Dunleavy has been wavering ever since he declared. He might be 50/50 right now. Ming/Williams is a consensus top 2. Butler is high up there, as is Dunleavy. There's 4 right there. 3 more until 8-How about Drew Gooden, Nick the Tsick, and Dajuan Wagner? In that case, all 3 are at 8. What if Woods' stock rises again to top 7? Stoudemire? Any number of possibilities are there. And all are question marks. Can Gooden or Wagner play the 3? Is Nik ready for the NBA? I would take any of those guys at the 8, sure, but people are complaining about question marks with Yao; they should realize everyone has question marks. That's why I'm against trading the 1 for the 8: at #1 we're guaranteed to get the player with the fewest question marks at the position we want. Also on Wilcox-he seems to be developing a 10-12 foot jumper, in your opinion would that be enough of an "offensive" game, in addition to the innumerable alley oop passes he would receive? I'd love to get Wilcox. But he's a 4, and not terribly different from Griffin. He'll also need to develop. Are you convinced they can play together in the frontcourt? Surely at some point, you stop picking the BAA and pick for need. We do need a 5, right?
Just when I think that I need to stop visiting the BBS on a daily basis due to the same old REAL GM threads and Other such nonsense a thread like this pops up which reminds me what a great site this is. There have been many excellent points made, kudos to all. My take on Ming is that the Rocks really do not need him to be that great a player. At 7' 6" he will provide a defensive presence by just standing out there (ok an exaggeration but you get my point). He also does not have to do too much to get his shot off. My understanding is that we were building this team around Francis and so we ought to look at Ming as a support piece and not a franchise player. I suppose one could argue about the wisdom of building a team around Francis as he, IMHO, is being played out of position but it seems that the Rocks have to learn to live with the decision. The only other solution would be to trade him for another franchise type player, however that would be highly unlikely and highly destabilizing. IMHO the best possible scenario would be to get China to fully cooperate then we draft Ming and then manage a trade with the Clips for Odum (Could we give them KT and Moochie?). We could then keep Torres at the 2 and have Mobley back up Steve. At least this way we would have a consistent type of play from the PG position. Not typical PG play mind you but at least consistent play once you put in the second string. We would also have many options for set offenses. BTW Torres’ disappearance was quite odd as he had a one to two week period were he was showing a lot of skills but then seemed to drop off the face of the planet. Does anyone know if the Rocks plan to retain him? Sorry about this rambling musing but I don’t get much time to post.
Then you are back to having the worst defense in the NBA. Do you see what I'm saying. We must primarily improve our defense and that starts in the frontcourt. However, if you intend to win in the NBA using a perimeter game, you cannot field a one-dimensional defensive frontcourt player. If you do, you better have stud scorer PF. But then, that's not really a 4 out 1 perimeter structure any longer. With the 5th pick, I'd say, yeah, go for Odom or Butler or whoever and pray Griffin becomes a stud. With the #1, that risky route is no longer necessary. Just take the man who can help you improve both offense and defense in one position. Then you can add a Horry-type at SF and actually create the best defense in the NBA, with Kenny and Cato coming in off the bench. That is a defensive juggernaut in the making. Your Odom-based offense is not a juggernaut, imo, especially when you have to play Cato, and Griffin can't yet hold his low post position against stud PFs. innumerable alley oops? You believe a playoff team can win on frontcourt offense than can only offer an alley oop. This is a joke, right? 10-12' jumpers are not getting off. You know how close that is to the basket, no? imo, if an NBA cannot make an open 10' shot, he is VERY raw. Not just raw, but VERY raw. The center needs 15' range is he expects to get a free look without a defensive mistake. There are no free looks by Wilcox at 10' without a defensive mistake or him sucking at it like Cato. Tell me he learned a running hook with both hands or a turnaround j from 10' ala TMass, or a 15-18' range, and I'll change my mind.
ricealum, I just dont agree that by moving down to No 8 and getting Odom, you increase your risks (this is in response to your earlier post also btw). This type of deal really serves to hedge your risks imo as opposed to create more of them. No matter what happens at 8 or 12, you already have a stud 3 man that had two huge seasons and started drawing Magic Johnson type comparisons after yr 2. Last summer, the Clippers wouldnt even have considered dealing him. Yes, I believe Chris Wilcox can play center at the NBA level. His body is very developed and chiseled, and the guy plays with emotion and fire. This is a PFs league now, I have no problem playing a strong, tough minded 6-10 banger in the middle that can rebound, defend and block shots. By drafting Ming, you are basically guaranteeing yourself a 3-4 yr process while he develops. No one denies his offensive talent, I dont either, the question is whether or not he can play inside at this level with his lean upper body. Most accounts you read except the most optimistic feel Ming needs a patient hand to develop. I fully understand the argument that he can build up his upper body and start playing inside at the NBA level, but this is going to take a lot of time esp considering the Rockets are conceding him to China during large chunks of the offseasons. I am not ready to be in the lotto for 3-4 more yrs. HP, The enlarged 3 guard offense will work just fine imo with a consistent outside shooting Taylor (until Griffin is ready to assume full time duties) and a banger in the middle. Mo Taylor had a very solid season prior to his achilles injury and was money from mid range. I do subscribe to the theory of putting alternate style players together. Instead of speaking hypotheticals, lets get to the point since this argument is starting to go in circles. Do you really think that an offense with Francis, Mobley, Odom, Taylor (until Griff is ready) and Wilcox is going to be crap? Consider the improved transition game, Mobley and Francis getting easier looks etc. As far as the defensive end goes, I dont really think your one up one back strategy will make that huge a difference. It all boils down to this for me, if the PF opposing Griffin is going to consitently get great low position, do you really think this one up one back thing your talking about is going to make a whole lot of difference? I dont think so. This is where you need the player with the alternate style to slide over even if it means losing some on offense. Btw, you will still have two very good shot blockers in the middle, one of them just wont get pushed around. One last point, your not depending wholly and solely on Griffin as you keep trying to drive home. Mo Taylor is more than adequate for the time being with a banger playing next to him until Griffin develops. I would reverse the argument and say with drafting Ming, your wholly and solely depending on him developing. What the heck happens if Ming doesnt pan out? What do you have to show for your draft then? No Odom to make our guards better, no banger to help toughen up our interior. All you show then is a bunch of lottery seasons.
