How about another, similar paradigm. Who remembers the little maneuver that Rudy instituted back whenever for Hakeem to help him get position against all of the fronting in the low post? Here's the recap: Whenever the ball went to a traditional post entry position, the big man closest to the ball would cross the lane and set a pick. The weak-side big man (usually Hakeem) would then come across and get the ball in prime low post position, and the defense would be a little off kilter. How about some sort of offensive setup where there was a low-post guy on the strong side, and another, interchangeable guy on the weak side of the free throw line. When he ball entered the post entry point, the guy down low could set a back pick for the guy up high and then flash open to a position to take a pass. As the "big man" positions would be interchangeable, you'd end up with either Ming in the post without having to fight for great position, or Ming with the ball up high where he could shoot a "J" or give the classic "high-low" pass when the post guy's defender rotated to him. Alternately, you'd end up with someone like Howard with a 15 foot "J", which seems to be his bread and butter which would draw defenders to him and free the low post for Ming, or (admittedly the worst situation) Juan in the low post. Other options would include a defender rotating off of the entry pass, so you could put Barry there to hit open jumpers, or use McGrady, and mix in back-picks from Ming or Howard to keep the "D" honest. I remember how lame I originally thought the cross-post pick was for Hakeem, but I also remember my suprise at how effective it was. I also have a general impression that Ming is at his best when the defense dosen't have time to square up on him. He's great, for instance, on putting back offensive rebounds and the like. This is not a knock on Ming, but rather perhaps a realization of the laws of physics. I think it is fairly well accepted that someone who is 7 feet has a disadvantage over someone 6'6" regarding quickness simply because of the leverage of moving such a length of body. (Think, for instance, maneuvering a short ladder vs. a long one). I think people fail often to realize that Yao should suffer the same disadvantage x2 given the extra 5 or 6 inches he has over the average 7'. This is not a knock on Yao, but rather a realization of reality. His quickness as it is is amazing considering what he is working with. To expect much more is somewhat silly, IMHO. Rather, the plan should be to eliminate the need for him to "out quick" people, but instead enable him to get the ball with a positional advantage where he can instead use his height. Again, I think of the way that nobody can stop him when he gets the ball in an unexpected way, either through an offensive rebound, or as a result of a deft pass from a teammate. The results here speak for themselves. I think that pundits who suggest that he needs to develop a "classic low post game" are refusing to think in anything but the most classic of terms. I remember a series of articles around the 1986 NBA finals vs. the Celtics by some Boston Globe writer who said that Hakeem would never become a great center because he didn't square his feet up properly in the low post when he got the ball, and thus would never be able to develop the full compliment of center moves that made Wilt or Kareem all-time greats. In the terminology of classic fundamental basketball at the time, the guy was correct, but Hakeem developed his own idiom and it worked. I also remember that people used to complain about the first guys who practiced the jump shot, as opposed to the set shot. They had all sorts of really good, valid reasons to support their opinion, but I think history speaks for itself.
You did. I asked a question which required you to expand upon your position. Nothing more. Thanks for the apology. Now, let's have some fun!
Yes ! That's it! Great Post. In addition, I'd like to show a link to a basketball highway triangle offense illustration : http://www.bbhighway.com/talk/coaching_box/Clinics/Triangle/triangle_intro.asp The thing I'd like to draw your attention to is the "lines of deployment " figure. It lists the low side post, high side post, sweet spot, garden spot, and so on. I'm going to list our players as follows : Ming 5 Howard 4 Wesley/Barry 3 Tmac 2 Sura 1 We assume Tmac has more room to operate from the 2's "place of deployment" on offense. 1 and 3 are interchangeable - slashing or shooting options. Sura is actually pretty good on the boards, and he's definately better slashing than shooting. Wesley and Barry are the shooters, using distance and picks to fire. All as it should be. If you look at that illustration, you'll see that Ming and Howard can set up and use their skills from the high posts on the left and right. We get to pull a defender away from Tmac, by setting 3 on the opposite side, forcing them to guard the backdoor. Now, Ming can flash to the low post right or left, or set picks, effectively, but his original deployment , slightly below the right high post, will give him room to operate, with good passing angles. If they overload Yao and front, he can drift and pull the defenders, so Tmac can operate slashing or firing or working with Howard on the left side. Tmac has to get the ball early, as they pass the stripe, then he can direct the action. That's as it should be. There are a number of effective plays that deploy the center away from the low post. We need to use the skills of the guys we have, and deploy them smart to get the best spacing and the best shots. If Yao can use his skills he can score another 4 points a game, which should vault him to legitimate star status at 22/8. That should be enough to get him more respect from the refs. He's not going to get the whistle respect we need for him if he keeps getting sat in a chair they pull out from under him in the low post. Make him a star with star respect now, with his skill set now, add new skills to the star when he gets the good whistle, later.
Texas Stoke: Notice how hard Yao fights for position and how hard for the team to get him the ball. The many seconds used on the shot clock, the dragging by Yao with his defender from left to the right, the fronting and sandwiching etc.. are the reasons why Yao would be reluctant to just turn and make the effort look silly. Yao is a grown man and he knows why the team go through the trouble to get him the ball. I don't remember a single time JVG complimented Yao's outside game or face up game, and there's no plays other than using Yao as a screen in non-post up possessions. The complete ignorance on Yao's face up game in the system speaks volume for itself. JVG and cos don't need to say things explicitly for Yao to get the message. Also, I'm not saying that Yao should go one on one in the low post with his face up game. That's a situational choice IMO. Yao is too good a low post player to do that. My point is that Yao should be utilized systematically with his face to the basket. You mentioned players who turns around after they received the entry pass, how about telling me which of those players were handcuffed by extreme public opinion in the way they should play the game? The public opinions have stuck in the Yao vs. Smits comparison too much that generated zero tolerance to Yao's face up game. It's hard to imagine that Yao doesn't know about it. What if Yao is also influenced by such jumpers-for-giant phobia(JGP)? It's not hard for people to be stuck in stereotypes. I've never seen a guy who's surrounded by JGP like Yao. People wants him only in the low post with his back to the basket and nothing else. When an advice is made to advocate using Yao's face up game it's always received with stereotypical response of the same height-makes-great-low-post-player unfounded gibberish. Has Yao been given freedom by the coaches and the masses to play his own game? No way. If he shoots a 3 pointer(which he did in his rookie year but has since gone AWOL under JVG) there will be people saying that he's just another Sam Perkins, whereas Rasheed Wallace chucks up 3 pointers any chance he gets without the same shots thrown at him. I think that's enough for your enquiry. BTW, very nice posts by Ottomaton and Pasox2.
Do you really believe JVG would just let his players to roam freely on the floor. Do you really believe it's Yao who insists on playing on the low post exclusively. Do you really believe it's Sura's sole desire rarely to look for Yao on most penetrations, or P'nRs. In fact, the only person JVG allows to hoist up any shots anytimes is T-mac, and that was after losing on a regular basis in the beginning of the season. Don't you know how hard it is to make a face-up move after you recieves the ball with a defender shoveling on your back while getting no call from the refs. It was no coincidence I brought up the example of Kareem who was about 7' 3" or 4". Do you really believe it's within Yao's capability to make such a move when the only chance he could receive the ball is with his back toward the basket. As a matter of fact, I wanna see Yao does more pick 'n pops either near the high post or at the wing from a Sura's penetration. And no more rolleyes for you
Matt Jackson basically agreed with this thread on his post game show after the game. Basically said that Yao should be getting alot of touches in the high post and on the pick & roll where he can take shots from 15-18 ft.
What are the odds of Yao getting a significant role in the high post on the Rockets with JVG? How bout slim to none? I don't see Yao doing this with the Rockets. However, I do see him doing this with the Lakers though. Being the obedient soldier doesn't work in the NBA.
Dude, you're like a broken record. Even on the ESPN boards. Just put your trade suggestion as your signature and save some bandwidth in the process. What was that, Yao and MoT for Kobe, Caron Butler, and Lamar Odom?
Ok, Charvo. I am a YOF too. And I don't care where Yao plays (either Houston or LA) as long as he plays wells and his team wins games. But don't you get it already? Don't you remember the response you get everytime you mention Yao with Lakers? Yet you keep doing it repeatedly. Don't get me wrong, you have every right to want to see Yao in Lakers, but do you have to mention it in 90% of your posts in a Rockets board. That's just asking for trouble. And for every one of you , Charvo, 100 of other YOF's are being <b>unfairly</b> thought of as trolling, being stupid, <insert any insult here>. So give it a rest, dude.
Hopefully, Yao will realize that he has his future in his own hands. 1. JVG gets fired. New coach comes who allows Yao to play a game he is more comfortable with. 2. Yao doesn't sign the extension forcing the Rockets to trade Yao. 3. Yao signs an extension with the Rockets forcing him to be with JVG for the next 7 years. Everyone knows Yao follows the orders of the coach. He never disobeys. This is a flaw that came from his days in communist basketball camp. He never questions the superior. I've said it last year and I'll say it again. Asians are never going to be able to brute their way to success in professional sports. It's through skill and accuracy that Asians will do well. There are genetic differences. Last time I checked, Yao is Asian. Number non-black basketball players who attempt to make their living in the low post: 1 and that is Yao. Yao is trying to be the first non-black player in the history of the NBA to be successful solely in the low post. I hope Yao will realize this before he inks the contract.
He might be a broken record. Unfortunately he had made more senses than some of the more senior members here.
Actually, I think it's ok to be a broken record. Now, a repeating parrot is something else. j/k I was just trying to get the Captain Obvious title.
Or not. -Hubie Brown Can you imagine he might be talking about....Kevin McHale? Or if you need an example in today's NBA, Pau Gasol doesn't do too bad a job of it.
This is like totally not making any sense. The lane is 12 ft across. If a post guy gets the ball right outside the lane, he is 6-9 ft from the basket. No one can turn and face the basket from that distance because the defense is in your face. Only when you catch the ball 13-15 ft or more from the basket can you turn and face up. The defense usually backs off from a center at that distance because 1) he can't shoot from outside 2) they want to stop the driblle penetration.
Pasox2, nice link. However, I am not sure whether it's way too complicated for JVG to read, let alone to execucate on the court.
