Right Jeff you and your logic ~ i'm jumping on the Yao High Post Bandwagon YHPB and i'm not looking back.
Having Yao play the high post would put him right in the middle of the action, which I don't think is such a good idea. I think Yao would turn the ball over a lot more with guards running by and slapping the ball away. He seems to play better when he's isolated and rather than put right in the middle of the action. Also, players that play the high post have to be good at making quick decisions. They have to know the exact right time to pass, shoot, etc. That is definitely one of Yao's biggest weaknesses. He tends to make mistakes when forced to make quick decisions.
My goal is to put Yao in a position where he has some space to shoot a short jumper or just keeps the ball moving; he seems good at those two things. He doesn't seem to put the ball on the floor or handle it in traffic well.
To mix it up. It's much harder to defend a guy with a low post game and a face up jump shot. To have a post presence but often times we need to have Yao run pick and roll and gets the ball in high post and he did a pretty good job knocking down those long jumpers.
The problem is you can't expect a mango tree to grow oranges. I wish Yao had that instinct for the low post. But that's precisely what it is - instinct. We're in our third year in watching Yao progress. Yet despite his mechanical improvements, I'm a bit skeptical at how much more progress he can/will show as a low post player. For all the comparisons that were made of Yao when he was drafted, I think the people comparing him to Rik Smits had it dead-on. Yao is a lot like Smits and Smits, as many of you recall, was absolutely lethal at 10 feet out at the high post, at the top of the key, at the baseline, etc.. Whether or not JVG uses Yao in this way is difficult to say. But Yao clearly has a terrific shooting touch. One reason why we are probably not seeing Yao get the green light at the high post as much this season is b/c we are still weak in the rebounding dept. If we had a prolific power forward, maybe Yao could be freed up to go the high post. However, as paltry as Yao's rebounding numbers have been, we still need a body down there to grab potential offensive rebounds. One compelling reason to use Yao at the high post though is the fact that the high post really isn't all that "high" to Yao. Since Yao is so big, I actually think his pivoting and spacing would be better if he operated a lot higher. My guess though is that JVG still thinks point blank layups/dunks are higher percentage FGAs, and he may be right. It seems like the Rox love the play where Yao flashes in the paint for the quick pass and easy dunk. theSAGE
Yao, as it stands is too one dimensional, whether it be due to JVGs lack of offensive imagination or something else. Anyways, Yao, with proper strength training and (please please Lord) a summer off, can be a good low post player while using his jumpshot several times a game to open it up for himself down low. Right now, it seems he doesn't know how to mix it up very well, either being a good jump shooter or banging down low, where he really seems to struggle due to his lack of strength.
VERY rarely. Mostly, he faces up on the perimeter and looks to drive or take a jumper. I can't recall seeing him with his back to the basket on the block more than a handful of times all year.
Exactly Our team have to pay the cost to let yao grow. TOs is ok I feel. think there are so many hands there right? How to use yao still our big problem. I feel after his first two jump shots JVG probably ask yao try to go inside and get some fouls. Yao should combine his skills not just one way all the time. He still need to learn and his teammates should understand this. But I still see the hope. Rockets will have a bright future. I belive now we have chance to beat any team.
Yao should play in the high post, all the time, right now. If he rolls low, it should be a surprise that nets him an easy bucket. Not a wrestling victory. OPTIONS : UCLA cut triangle high/low pick and roll Successful Models : Kareem Abdul-Jabaar, Bill Walton Why : We have Tmac. Longer version Why : This is the best use of Yao's skill set, RIGHT NOW, and allows more space for Tmac to operate. It spreads the floor, and allows Yao more room to operate. Yao is quite tall, and a pretty good option to shoot over anybody, if he's just collecting and shooting, rather than bumping, getting stripped, and falling down. He can also pass pretty well, if he can see over the top and hit people on the move. It is an ILLOGICAL FALLACY to expect different results, when you keep doing the same thing. Yao isn't going to change into a low post monster, just because we keep parking him there. That is wishful thinking, that only reveals an emotional immaturity manifest in prejudice. Take what is there, now. If Yao adds a low post game in the offseason, like Hakeem added something to his game every year, great. Then he can use it. It's not there - now - and we need him to succeed with what gifts he has - now. To ignore those gifts is to invite regression.
There is a multitude of factors concerning his struggles versus double teams. Lack of upper body strength, assertiveness and tenacity, lack of explosiveness; but him having struggles does nothing to deny the fact that he has a variety of low post moves. Also there is no need for you to be a little snotty punk when you are talking to someone that has probably forgotten more about basketball talent than you've ever learned.
A couple of problems with your assessmet. First off, neither Walton or Jabbar played motion or high post offenses in the NBA. Walton's passing skills were generated from the low block. Jabbar was a monster on the low block with the Sky Hook. They dominated college competition because they overmatched most of it. In the pros, they went to their strength which was posting up and trailing on the break. The other problem is that you make the assumption that the center in those motion style offenses is the scorer. He isn't. He is the guy starting the offense, which is why Shaq didn't like the triangle and why the guys who played it in the past successfully weren't big time centers in the league. They were specialists who could pass well from the post and occassionally hit an open jumper. Lastly, the defensive rule changes actually don't favor motion style offenses which is why they are used less and less. The pick and roll is making a HUGE comeback because it forces players to grab and hold on the perimeter which is getting called almost every time by officials. It also has tapered off because teams are running more. It actually takes longer to set up a motion offensive set in the half court than it does to set up a low post offense even if JVG's sets seem insufferably long. It's good to incorporate motion and some high post elements into the half court offense and the Rockets actually do that. But they want Yao to be on the END of shots rather than as the point man. His lack of shots is more a reflection of his development as a player and the style of defense run by opponents than the specific offense of the Rockets.
I posted this in the Yao face up thread but it applies to this thread as well --------------------------- I have been thinking about this recently. Now that I've seen Yao take a few more 15 and even 18 footers the past couple of games, i've wondered if JVg would take the shackles off Yao to be as free and T-mac is to take jumpers. Think about it, why does t-mac have the green light to shoot whenever he wants and as much as he wants? Becuase he can shoot over any gaurd in the league, even if they are ready for the shot. Now think about Yao. Yao can shoot over anyone in the league if he's given just a few feet of room (which he almost always has when he's around 15+ feet.) I'd honestly love to see that play ran until he either stars bricking it or until the defense adjusts. If he misses 2 times in a row then run the play again and maybe have him pump fake and do his little spinning move toward the basket or have a cutter and let Yao use his extinct passing skills we all know he has somewhere. We need some more offensive plays that focus on Yao out of the post. Let him try to get deep post, if thats defended well have him run a pick and pop or a pick and pass to a cutter. That would save him a lot more energy than to have to fight for position again or make a rainbow around to the other side with our gaurds just passing around the arch waiting for Yao to get set. If we resort to these types of plays our offense will be much more fluid and adds another demension. I can congure up a few variations of plays with Yao in the 15 footer range that would be a blessing to even see attempted. I'm sure they will add a few more plays before the season is over, let's cross our fingers that it involves Yao with the green light to shoot. We've freed T-mac. We've freed Boki *snicker*. Now it's time to Free Yao!
Good observation. Hopefully I can solidy you point with wordiness. We should play a 7'6" center with low post moves play strictly down low when: 1. We have guys who can shoot from outside. Two of our starters, Sura and Wesley are both shooting about 30% at threes. So we don't have the gunners to make it work. 2. The refs calling a fair game. A work in process IMO. 3. Said center can get the ball. Don't matter if it's his fault, teammates fault, or the coach's fault, if he can't get the ball consistently, then he shouldn't play down low strictly. 4. Said center having a deadly hook shot, otherwise we are wishing a 7'6" center to dominate with turnaround fadeways, which is what's happening now and we see the results. Yao still hasn't prefected his hook shots, his form needs better instructions because sometimes he has trouble maintain it. If we are willing to let a guy to play the game on turnaround fadeaways, it makes sense to let him shoot more face up jumpers. 5. The absence of zone defense. With zone defense, low post players have adjusted to the rules by taking more face up jumpers under the increased difficulty to get the ball down low. Duncan and other premier big man have feasted on open jumpers off teammates penetration. One of Duncan's signature move isn't a low post one, but a face up bank shot. Duncan has Parker, Yao has McGrady. The face up game is the best way to bulid chemistry between the two. It's apparent that people want Yao to become a low post back to the basket monster when there's no equipment around Yao to make it work. The problem is further complicated with Yao's low post game deficiencies. As a result, the team is paying the cost of low post game but not reaping the full benefits of it. The low post game doesn't suit this team's style. It bogs down the offense more often than it helps. It should be used as an alternative instead of mainstay, a teaching lesson to Yao instead of his saving straws. Until we eliminate the glitches in it we are sacrificing the team and half of Yao's game - the face up game - for Yao's development in only one area. The funny thing is, even the most staunch Yao back-to-the-basket backers don't envision Yao to be as dominanat as Shaq or Dream in the low post. Then, if the ceiling of Yao's back-to-the-basket game is lower than the MDEs, why not let him make it up with his higher ceiling in the face up game? The biggest problem of Yao right now is that he doesn't have a firm standpoint in the NBA, for due to factors mentioned above his low post game is limited, and he's sacrificing his face up game to develop it. The demotion to role player status at times is a reflection of such state. Yao needs to find his niche and build from it, instead of throwing away his niche and making himself and the team crawl into difficult spots.
Panda: Nice job of fleshing out my general observation. I'm all for Ming developing an all-around game, but not game planning to his strengths NOW seems destined to disappoint everyone and, I'm afraid, frustrate Ming.
