Ming and Griffin for Duncan

You'd be surprised at the number of general fans that are higher on Ginobili than Ming, and as high on Parker as Griffin. Now, of course it's wrong. Truthfully, everyone loves to bash Ming because of his height, and people know more about Parker than Griffin because his team made the playoffs. But, it's not simply that the "Spurs fans are bigger homers". As unbelievably stupid as it is, there are a large percentage of fans that feel that way because of the exposure.

That being said, you're being a bit of a anti-Spurs homer too. Parker may have averaged 10 and 4 in the regular season, but for a 19 year old foreign rookie, that's damn good. Griffin didn't seem to do much better. Also, Cuttino Mobley was a second rounder too. I'm not saying Manu will be as good as Mobley, but don't stereotype him as some "typical" second round pick. He's the consensus top player in Europe.

I agree that it's a joke for the Spurs not to pursue Kidd because of Parker. I guarantee you, the Spurs will definitely pursue Kidd anyway. But, for those same reasons, it's ridiculous not to pursue Duncan on the chance that Griffin and Ming develop into star players. While Yao and Griffin are better than Parker, the principle remains the same. You don't pass up the MVP of the league (or the best PG) on the chance that one or two young players develop.

 

Then I assume you think Yao and Griffin will help lead Francis and Mobley to a better record than the Spurs. Right Panda?

BTW- Are you an American Panda? How much NBA footage have you actually seen.

 

Hold it right there, Cat. I know you are a Spurs fan second to a Rockets fan, but equating the trade value of Parker with Yao and Griffin's is going too far. Yao and Griffin worth 4 Parkers combined. Parker for Kidd will be scoffed by the Nets. Yao and Griffin will make them drool. Although the context remains the same, the talent difference between the sum of Yao-Griffin and Parker is too huge to be neglected.

I think that as long as Yao can give us 13-8, Griffin at 16-8 while averaging 3 blocks in total, we will have a frontcourt to go to war with. The dearth of centers in the NBA make Yao's presence much more valuable than just 13-8. It means we'll have matchup advantage against most if not all the teams, in terms of Yao's shooting and height. Both of them just have to become above average players to be worthy of one Duncan IMO. I do believe that the chance of them realizing that is greater than Parker turning out to be the next Kidd. Not to say they probably will be more than above average players at their position.

To me Yao and Griffin in total have more talent and potential on paper than Duncan, that can't be denied. Together they have the best shot in the L at being the best frontcourt, that Duncan cannot provide. This case deserves individual consideration of Yao and Griffin's respective abilities and their synergetic effect together, which adds points in favor of not trading them. Keep in mind that the argument here is not about trading two unproven players in general for an MVP, the argument here is about trading one precious and great prospect tandem that we'll never witness again, for an MVP.

Yao and Griffin for Duncan is a fair deal in my book, but I wouldn't do it as I value witnessing a possible best frontcourt/dynasty in the making more than an elite player. In a close situation it's the difference in people's values that decides, there's no use argue about values. Beside, I've given my reasons on this trade that've been neglected. It seems like a waste of time for me. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

LakerMania: Nope I'm not an American, which matters not on this topic. Just for your information I've followed the Rockets for several years and watched hundreads hours of NBA games.

 

EXCUSE ME? ming n griffin fo DUNCAN? uh uh..pulease first of all like duncan gon wanna c*m to tha rockets, second, evryone judgin ming like they kno how he already play..none yall kno wut kinda playa he is so yall quit judgin n wait till we seen him play, an cmon mayn..grifffin is improving an gettin betta by da minute he gon b a huge help tah tha rockets n yall kno dat. pssh..talkin bout ming n griffin fo duncan das crazay talk...im against it even tho i like duncan n all...naw im gainst dis fo sho.

 

duncan is already good
yao may be good
eddie may be good therefore...
i have no idea

 

is it german?

 

What you fail to understand is that Duncan + almost any big man in the NBA with a pulse is a better tandem then Ming and Griffin. To give you a little perspective, trading Duncan for Ming and Griffin would be like trading Jordan(in his prime) for Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp(in his prime). Yes Payton is a potential Hall of Famer and Kemp was great but its just a totally differnt level of player. If Kemp and Payton don't do it for you substitute in Karl Malone and John Stockton. Hell and this is ASSUMING that either Ming or Griffin can EVER play at an All Star level.

 

I think what most of us are trying to say is that the two TOGETHER would be great. And with the decline of C's, this could be a very good duo. Since Yao should be 5 or 6 inches taller, he would probably be better than most if he could shoot and play decent D. Even if he wasn't great, he'd still probably get good numbers with the matchup. Griffin is also pretty tall for his postion, and has great blocking instincts. If he could get some post moves and get bigger weight wise, the Twin Towers would be a pretty good mismatch to use. Not to mention Griff is still younger than Tim was when he entered the NBA. I agree that Duncan could be in a good dou with anybody, but I think Ming/Griff will be better than that. (unless a Shaq/Duncan duo formed.)

 

Pairing Duncan with Cato is not necessarily better than Ming and Griffin. Watch some tape of Cato first before you make bold assertion like that.

 

Wow...what?

Panda, don't slight Cato so much.

At this point, Cato+Duncan is far superior to Griffin+Ming.

Ming+Griffin could become an intimidating front line for years, but Tim Duncan is already part of one of the more intimidating front lines in years...he makes David Robinson an even better defensive player than he is.

There is little doubt in my mind that the Rockets management would jump all over this deal(I can't confirm it, but I am sure that they would love it). I've seen the Present+the Future, and he wears #21.

Now, enough Pro-Spur talk, we have Griffin and Ming, not Duncan, and should be very happy with them. Both of these guys have the ability to become high quality post players. As these guys improve, our team defense will improve...And, hopefully, our win total will improve as well.

 

Why do you keep it up? Your Summers must be driving you off the wall! Houston Rockets is going to have a very young team 02/03 and there is a good chance if the chemistry works out(You know what I mean), then the Rox will be the most entertaining team in the NBA and will leave behind all the great things ever won by previous Rox Teams.With this in mind let SA. get on with their season and see how we reverse the recent seasons results. We dont need any one from SA. This great Rox team will be built from scratch.

 

First of all, comparisons based on current status aren't fair in this case. When you talk about trading prospects for stars it's all about potential. Of course Duncan+Cato is better than Yao and Griffin now, but after two years, who knows? Sky's the limit for both of them. I'd bank on Yao and Griffin is better than Duncan+Cato if they turn out to be above average players. Chances on that are pretty good. If you don't have such basic faith in Yao and Griffin, you must have a very bleak outlook on the Rocket's future.

Just answer me this question, if you trade Yao away, knowing that he's already much bulkier and much taller than Duncan, then as a Spur Yao proved in the first matchup against Duncan that he has the agility to stay with him. In that case Duncan'd have big trouble scoring against Yao, or at least be contained. What can you do watching Yao giving Duncan fits? beg the Spurs to reverse the trade?

This is not a pipe dream cooked up by some homers, it has 50% chance of happening as Yao has unusual agility at his size. We just need to wait and see. Not to mention Griffin is poised to be at least a sweet shooter and defensive specialist as well. Just let them play first before you guys are busy setting invisible ceilings on them. I don't want to bite my finger nails after 2 years watching Yao shooting jumpers all night long over Cato, Griffin blocking Duncan's shots, and they swat the sh*t out of Cat and Francis. Nope, not even allowing the chance for that to happen.

Trading Duncan may be beneficial and more secure in short term, but IMO would turn out to be worse than keeping Yao and Griffin in the long term. Yao and Griffin have untapped potential and they are not your normal frontcourt prospect, how many times do I need to emphasize that this combo comes only once in a lifetime and there's an MVP each and every year? I still maintain that I wouldn't even consider trading them before Griffin and Yao have a chance to play together. Just give them a chance to grow!

Go Yao and Griffin!!!

 

Yeah...I'm surprised that such differing opinions could be found.

 

Some of you people here need to get your head out of your a$$. Ming and griffin not worth the league MVP? I have never heard a more ignorant statement. Realistically Ming at best is gonna average about 15ppg/8 rb, have a rik smits type career, while griffin could be a perennial all-star, but by no means a mvp, but even all that is atleast 2 to 3 years away. While duncan who is fully developed yet only 25 years old has many more mvp seasons in him.

 

Ming will not avg those numbers at best. More like at worst. (career-wise,not this next season.) Griffen will only be 20 this year, and already could be an NBA starter. He blocks like crazy, and has a sweet stroke. If he could develop some postup moves and some muscle, he could very well be better than Duncan. And Duncan is 26, btw.

 

But still, why would the spurs trade a young league mvp with many good season left for a raw prospect and one of the biggest question marks in recent history. It would be a decent trade if both griffin and ming were already developed and turned out to be all-stars.

 

Man, some ppl just don't know when to stop.

It's not ignorant to not trade Yao and Griffin for Duncan. Not too long ago the Lakers traded Vlade Divac, a player averaged 14 and 10 in three seasons prior to being traded for a 13th pick from the Hornets, who happened to be a high school kid.

Guess what, that high school kid was Kobe Bryant. The Lakers won out like a bandit in that trade, but Jerry West was considered crazy trading one of the best centers in the L for a high school prospect. The Hornets who thought they got a steal end up being the loser in that trade.

Granted, Divac was nowhere near Duncan's caliber, but Kobe at the 13th was far from No.1 pick plus No.7 pick either.

Not to mention Griffin could've gone at N0.1 if it's not for his rumored attitude problem.

Yao can do everything Duncan could do when he first entered the league, while having more upside than Duncan at the same stage due to his sheer size. Griffin is bound to be at least a 16 and 8 player. (If Lewis can get these numbers just because he can shoot and stands at 6-10, then so can Griffin). Together they can wreak havoc for years and stomp the Spurs under their feet.

So stop setting glass ceilings like "Yao to be a 15-8 player at most." before you see him play. There's nothing preventing Yao and Griffin becoming the type of player that Kobe and Duncan are. Kobe was very raw when he came into the league. He became one of the best due to his intense desire to succeed. Yao and Griffin are the same type of hard workers and they are more prepared than Kobe entering the league. Give them a chance to prove themselves before you ship them away! or we could be the same Hornetic(if that's a word) loser!

 

Maybe the same reason why NJ traded EG for 3 picks.They may feel they are one or two players away from another ring.

They are pretty much at their best now,imo. They could trade for the two if they were smart. They would start the rebuilding process with two good cornerstones, an at least ok pg in Parker, and that foreign guy. This would probably make them worse for now, but better in the future.

But I don't want to trade them, so I don't care if they do want them. Although Duncan is very good, we would still have to get a good C to compliment him. Not to mention that I believe his contract is up soon, so he may go elsewhere. Also, like Panda says, I don't want to see Ming and Griffin swatting our stuff and winning rings.

 

I would do it, you trade 2 maybe players for a known superstar.

However, knowing that TD may bolt because he only has one year left would stop me from making the deal.

Also, it depends on where the Rocks management feels this team is....if they think it can compete NOW then yes....if they feel they are still a couple of years away ...then no...

Tim Duncan > Griffin + Ming

As it stands today, that may change but always take the known quantity over the unknown.

DD