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Mindy Kaling’s brother pretended to be black to get into med school

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Air Langhi, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Doubtful... if he actually completed med school, passed his initial boards, completed a multi-year residency (that has several built-in hurdles), passed his specialty boards, and only then became a licensed physician.... then he's probably proved himself.

    There's actually a lot of "doctors" who have completed med school, but were unable to do all the necessary boards/licensing exams in order to actually practice (majority of them are doing research).
     
  2. rudan

    rudan Member

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    How bout everybody claim they are black so no one can get free rides or be discriminated against? If everybody changed their name to lashawn and latisha we would all get equal rights......
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. T.Mcgrady

    T.Mcgrady Member

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    This is bull****. Complete and utter bull****. All I have is a personal anecdote to support this, but I graduated with a 4.0 science GPA/3.911 overall. Although there were few of us, every other AA applicant (that I knew) was unequivocally qualified for medical school based on academics.

    When I see crap like this come out, it makes my blood BOIL. I've worked hard to achieve what I have. It had *nothing* to do with race. **** "Mindy Kaling's brother". The people who propagate this nonsense are implying that the majority of AAs in medical school were "pity admits". It's implying that there's a racial caste system in medical school.... which is bull****.

    *Anyone* with a 3.1 shouldn't be going to medical school. Most schools will not consider you - it doesn't matter what race you are. His parents cut a check. Rather than admit to that, he claims to have faked his race. Good job on your farce of an acceptance buddy.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Yeah.... damn the statistics.
     
  5. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]

    Here is the data. No Anecdotes.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. T.Mcgrady

    T.Mcgrady Member

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    Your entire argument is predicated on empty percentages. Those are empty percentages. It's amazing how you can use data to mislead people.

    Here are the ACTUAL NUMBERS of applicants by race, GPA, and MCAT:

    White: https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstable25-4.pdf
    Hispanic: https://www.aamc.org/download/321512/data/factstable25-1.pdf
    Asian: https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/factstable25-3.pdf
    Black: https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/factstable25-2.pdf
    How about anyone other than whites or asians: https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/data/factstable25-5.pdf

    What stands out to you?

    You know what *really* bothers me. That the only thing EVER brought up are the blacks and hispanics. How about the number of "under-qualified" Asians and African Americans - you know, the totality of which VASTLY outnumber the blacks and hispanics. Are they any less qualified to go to medical school?

    I'll wait to hear why not ONE PERSON in this thread hasn't bothered to bring this up. We all know EXACTLY why. 50% of total applicants are white, 7% are black.The number of "under qualified" blacks/hispanics accepted is actually MUCH lower than the number of under qualified whites and/or asians accepted. I want to reiterate that not ONE of you is suggesting something is inherently wrong with that.

    I want to ask you something - what accomplishment is more difficult. Going from the projects to a 3.5/29 or living in the suburbs (I'm from Plano, TX btw - this includes me) with a fairly easy life outside of school and achieving a 4.0/38?

    There are some things that need to be further addressed. What programs were these people applying to/accepted into? MCAT/Extracurriculars? What was their socio-economic status (did they face the same hardships in life?). What extraneous circumstances do your percentages not account for.

    Lets just ignore those factors in this instance. Step 1, step 2, step 3. How many under-qualified applicants do you think could get past the USMLE?

    Read this, it might enlighten you:
     
  7. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    I'm having trouble following your problem against the graph Air Langhi posted? The graph seems to state that if you have an Asian and African American with the same test scores apply to medical school, the Asian has a 20% chance of being accepted and the African American has an 80% chance of being accepted. I don't really see anything tricky, empty, or misleading about it.

    If you're saying there are other things than just test scores then I agree, but that doesn't mean you can't derive any information from those statistics.
     
  8. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    The Data you posted disagrees with you. The odds of of an Asian getting in with 30-32 Mcat is 51% the odds of a black person with getting in with 27-29 is 73.4%. The odds of a white person getting in with 30-32 is 58.5%. There are a lot more white people that apply than Asian people yet a white person has a better chance of getting in with a given score. A Black person with a lower score has a better chance than an Asian person with a given score. I think anyone who puts in an effort and is reasonably smart can be a doctor, but it seems unfair to Asians.
     
  9. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    I think T. McGrady would say the admissions departments must have determined that on average the Asians had an easier life (less hardships) than the whites, so they are docked a little more.
     
  10. krnxsnoopy

    krnxsnoopy Contributing Member

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    Not sure what angle you are forming your argument, but this comment The number of "under qualified" blacks/hispanics accepted is actually MUCH lower than the number of under qualified whites and/or asians accepted. is simply wrong.

    I just compared the statistics for Black and Asian graphs you provided. And taking the SUM of the lower end of MCAT scores (5-23), the total Applicants, and total Acceptees.

    4,158 Black Applicants
    2,323 Asian Applicants

    342 Black Acceptees (or 8.23%)
    56 Asian Acceptees (or 2.41%)

    So yeah, not sure if you're trying to:

    -refute the "percentage statistics" Air Langhi posted
    -or make a claim that in terms of sheer volume or # of acceptees; more "unqualified" Asians are getting in than "unqualified" Blacks

    But neither approach is supported by the links you posted. Even at the LOWEST end, more Blacks are being accepted in total numbers AND Blacks are being accepted at a higher percentage.

    Taking a look at a more "normalized" scenario/qualifications, Let's take MCAT 27-29, GPA 3.60-3.79

    Acceptance rate= 87.6% Black
    Acceptance rate= 35.8% Asian

    Actually, you can select any point in the graph and compare apples to apples and you can see this happening.
    https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/factstable25-2.pdf
    https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/factstable25-3.pdf
     
    #70 krnxsnoopy, Apr 9, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2015
  11. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    Your last point is right, anybody below a 3.5 probably won't even get interviewed. As a minority that got accepted with a 3.8 and a 34 MCAT , research publications etc there were many people that got in with far below what is considered acceptable. AMCAS stats don't lie either.
    I do believe most of the AA applicants are qualified as you stated, but in a job like medicine where competence is of the utmost importance...you can't curb that for even a few incompetent individuals when there are people FAR more deserving.
     
  12. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

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    I don't want to get too involved into this argument, but I will say this: if you are a borderline applicant, then the medical school admissions system can DEFINITELY seem to be an unfair grind for those on the wrong side of the affirmative action curve.

    Back in 2006 I was struggling to get in med school, with a 3.71 composite GPA from an Ivy-level school and a 32 MCAT. Yea, I decided late and probably did not have enough on the research/volunteering side of things to get in easily. And I probably gave a poor interview as well. So I didn't get in my first year. The second year I went back, volunteered, and worked in research full time. Still no dice. It was probably the lowest point in my life, and the worse I have ever felt, knowing that I had interviewed ~16 times and not made the cut in a single institution to that point. I was real bitter about the world, and particularly affirmative action. You look for excuses.

    But if you can survive all of that--and Indians and Asians certainly have a tougher climb because of the numbers of people trying to get in--then you will emerge from the rubble a stronger person. Everyone has moments in life like this, and it does not do to make excuses for this or complain about how unfair the world is. I went back, re-took the MCAT and got a 39, and matriculated at the first school that took me (yea...25 interviews in three years). Now I'm fortunate enough to be in a position where I question the qualifications of NONE of the minorities I work with be they black or Hispanic. They're all fantastic at what they do, and me too I am a better person for having put in the work to improve myself: my study schedule, my work habits, how I spend my free time and take care of my health outside of work, everything. Because it's not like med school, residency, fellowship etc are any easier than college. That's just where the bottleneck is.

    I'm half-Asian so it doesn't really matter which box I click. But no matter your background, whether you are rich or poor, a favored son or a forgotten child of society, you do not do yourself any favors by lingering upon the lack of justice in this world. Simply aim for the best you can be, and grade yourself on no one's scale but your own. I try not to interpolate this philosophy onto anything political, but I'll just leave the topic of affirmative action with the relief that I feel every day knowing that I don't have to worry about it anymore. Everything I interview for, there are less than 3 positions, and everyone applicant I interview with has already trounced their exams and put in the effort on research to be worthy of consideration.
     
    #72 Spacemoth, Apr 9, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2015
    2 people like this.
  13. ShutURBiG!

    ShutURBiG! Contributing Member

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    Repped for motivating me through what I am going through right now.
     
  14. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    T. McGrady's got to be trolling in this thread.

    To think that AAs don't have a huge advantage in med school admissions is simply not accepting reality. This is one of the reasons why Affirmative Action is so bad -- it causes people to question the underrepresented minorities who get those slots.
     
  15. T.Mcgrady

    T.Mcgrady Member

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    By percentage, that may be the case. My point was that the raw number of "under qualified" african americans/hispanics is less than that of whites/asians.

    Now it's erroneous of me to include asians with whites. I was comparing the composite of hispanics/blacks w/ asians and whites - that isn't particularly fair as whites drastically skew the comparison.

    If you're asian, the standards are higher. The reality is that admissions committees are selectively holding that race to a higher standard due to perceived cultural norms which give them "advantages". Not saying that's fair.

    Whites on the other hand completely dominate the number of accepted applicants at any strata including the one being referenced here. There's this huge outcry about the increased percentage of accepted african americans/hispanics of "lower qualification" when the *actual* number is still not even comparable to the raw number of whites being accepted.

    Again, no one has any qualms about that. It's not like you'll all of a sudden have an influx of african americans/hispanics that want to be doctors. There's so few of them that in reality the percentage being accepted doesn't matter.
     
  16. rudan

    rudan Member

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    That's pretty bad. Asians get discriminated against based on everybody expects them to be smart. Blacks are getting discriminated against based on everybody shocked when they can put a sentence together..........
     
  17. Liberon

    Liberon Rookie

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    Total hrs spent vs rewards makes being a doctor not so cool. It's more of the endeavor of love to even want to be that.
     
  18. Faust

    Faust Member

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    damn you racist.
     
  19. hlcc

    hlcc Member

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    With the large difference in the population of whites, hispanics, blacks and asians in America, why would you possibly want to use the total nominal number instead of percentages.

    Following your train of thought, since there are far more whites living below the poverty line than blacks or hispanics (heck there's more whites living under the poverty line than black and hispanics combined) ,,, I guess poverty is not really a problem in the black community. Obviously any sensible person will look at the percentages instead which tells a completely different story.

    The Asians are getting screwed big time with affirmative action. When compared to the Whites, Blacks, and Hispanics, Asians are by far the smallest ethnic group in America with the least political power & representation yet held to the highest standards for both undergrad and post-grad acceptance. They are effectively being penalized under Affirmative Action.
     
  20. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

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    Just think of it this way. Every profession has its own frill, or side benefit if you will.

    A realtor knows he will not get screwed when it comes time to buy his own house.
    A CPA will never have problems with the IRS, and will minimize Uncle Sam payments by allocating her revenue streams accordingly.
    Anyone working in business or on Wall Street should never have problems building up a nest egg for retirement, be it through sensible wealth management or insider trading (you see the benefits getting better the more competitive the job?).
    A lawyer will have a really tough time getting in trouble with the law. Even DUI charges can be dropped when you know the right people, particularly in Texas.

    And what is it, then, that a doctor gets? If you get sick or hurt, and it's something simple, then you will get it taken care of without much cost or wait.

    And if it's something serious, then you will know not to spend your life's fortune chasing after the empty promise of a painful, undignified last few days.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/20/your-money/how-doctors-die.html?_r=0

    This applies for your family too. Altogether, I would choose that gift over any of the others.
     

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