I think the rule that states: "The team who ends up with the best player always gets the best of the trade" is correct about 99.9% of the time. Not always, but mostly. Francis is the best player in that deal. He very well may eventually be a top 5 player in the NBA. You don't send him packing unless you have an extremely good reason to do so.
Sometimes I just don't understand some of the reasoning of bbs members. There is no way anyone can say Francis is better than Miller. Who does Miller have? Jones, Murray,Mihm,Person, who? Both players are good players on avg to sorry teams period. I mean 16pts 10 asst is not as good as 20pts 6 asst? Miller impacts the game just as much as Francis does for his team. Saying Miller can't or won't be a superstar in this league is just like saying that Francis will, only time will tell. Some of the bbs forum personell really needs to get out or buy league pass and watch some of the other young players in this league before makin assumptions. These are the same posters that call Mobley a top player in this league, but he is proving that he is a avg player in comparison with the other players. Francis, Miller, and Davis are all very good whom i think would be traded even up for each other if possible just like Kidd vs Marbury. They each bring a uniqueness to the spot from the bullish pg in Davis, to the super smart Miller, to the very atheletic Francis. Its a no lose situation for any team that has either one of them, but to say Francis is better than any of those two is just being blind.
One of the biggest knocks on Cleveland, is that there team is boring. They'd jump at a chance for excitement like Steve. Talent wise, Miller/Mihm for Francis is VERY intriguing. If Griffin is a future #1 option, like we'd assume, it'd be interesting. Seeing Miller with weapons like Mobley, Griffin, Taylor, Rice, and Thomas plus the possibility of Rashard Lewis, and a high lotto pick would very exciting. I see Mihm as a very serviceable 4/5, the type the can get 25 solid minutes a game on any team. Mihm/Taylor/Griffin is a tough banger away, like a Jahidi White/Scot Pollard/Jamaal Magloire from being a very solid quartet at the 4/5, maybe even Cato could do that job. No Diop for me, too many injury issues, bust waiting to happen. A lot more goes into it. How worrisome are Francis' migraines? How iffy is he to resign? If Francis is less than a good bet to resign, then they might consider the idea. If Francis will resign without problem, I doubt it. In another alternate universe trade idea, what about Francis for Odom and Dooling?
Nike, The Clippers would jump ALL OVER that trade, and it's more appealing to the Rockets imo. The biggest problem for the Clipps this year has been there inconsistency in efficiency from the point guard spot. They aren't enamored with Jeff McGinnis, but he's good enough to where the Clippers would include Dooling in the deal. Still, I don't see the Rockets letting Francis go unless he makes it perfectly clear that he isn't go to resign. Can you tell me the difference dollar-wise between Francis resigning with the Rockets for the max, and him signing with another team after his fourth year is up? As much as players say 'it's not about the money', the discrepancy dollar-wise is too much for them to bypass imo. lee, Appreciate the belittlement, but I'm not a fan of trades that wouldn't improve the team.
Sane, I b**** about their play, but I want them to learn to win, and it is painful to watch the young Rockets make the same mistakes over and over, but if we break them up, it just screws up the chemistry and sets us back a peg. I would only be in favor of trading one Rocket...KT, and that is not because I don't like him, I just think he is going to leave anyway. I would be interested in hearing offers for Mobley, but even him, I would prefer to see grow and mature with the others. DD
lee: I mostly agree with your analisys. I think, however, that while the stats may be mostly a wash, the key difference between Miller and Francis is marketability. The league and many companies are already banking on Francis as a star. You cannot put a price tag on that. While I agree that Miller is the complete package and he and Francis are probably on a fairly even playing field when it comes to skills, Miller doesn't come close to Stevie in the marketing department and that has to be a big consideration. One other note...who means more to his team? I would argue that Francis is far more valuable to the Rockets and necessary than Miller is to the Cavs. That's yet another issue. The stats may be the same but the ability to alter the play of the team is something all good coaches and scouts look at.
More valuable, Jeff, but not FAR more valuable. I agree with DaDakota. Right now, the only Rocket we should trade is KT because eventually, he's gonna leave, and he'll NEVER have the trade value he has right now. I think packaged with Walt Williams, we can get a decent player and a draft pick. In fact, something just popped into my mind. Maybe Phoenix would be interested? A trade like: Rodney Rogers + draft pick (late first round) for KT + Walt Williams Rogers can play the SF minutes that he can get this seaosn since Rice and Williams will be gone. He can start there with T-Mo and Torres backing him up. Griffin could get his minutes now, with Kevin Willis getting more minutes at PF, and Rodney Rogers switching to PF when the matchup allows. Why do I think this is a good trade? No matter what the knock on Rogers is, when you get traded in the final year of your contract, you're gonna play good. Williams is not doing anything for us but occasionally hit the 3. KT will eventually be the odd man out. We're out of the playoffs, and if we're not, this will bring us closer to it. Phoenix already have Marion at SF, and now can either start KT at the 4, or play him big minutes behing Gugliotta. Walt can hit the occasional 3 for them off the bench (they're lacking in that department). This trade solves a lot of problems, for both teams, and all the contracts involved are small. Cato/Willis/Collier Griffin/Willis/Rogers Rogers/T-Mo/Torres Mobley/Torres Francis/Norris By next season, the SF and PF spot won't be overcrowded, our younger players will have played adequate minutes to develop, and we won't have to deal anyone. We'll look like: Cato/Collier/draft pick(or Willis) Griffin/Taylor/same draft pick (or Willis) Rice/T-Mo/Taylor Mobley/Torres Francis/Norris Small trade, big problem solved.
Francis brings too many intangibles and too much excitement to the Rockets to consider trading him for anyone less than a superstar. He is the starting point guard in the west, after all. Marketability does count, as Jeff pointed out. Anyway, just look at the difference that Steve makes to this team. The Rockets are already at a disadvantage with their poor coaching staff, but he makes them a +.500 team when he plays. No team in the league is as bad as the Rockets without Steve. Steve turns a bunch of underachieving losers into a half-decent team. His mere presence on the court alters games. Only Jason Kidd does a better job as a point guard. Despite what some of you may say, Steve does try get the Rockets running. He pushes the ball more than any other player on the team. Unfortunately, his teammates don't seem to be able to catch the ball. And let me add that no one works harder on improving than Steve. No one on the team plays harder or better. I think some of you include Steve with Cuttino and Moochie as part of the "dumb" list too often. He takes much better shots and makes much better decisions than either of the two. His headaches are a worry though...
Francis is amazing but i'm worried about his foot problem and his migraines, I love him but i would trade him and Mobley ( or Taylor) for Miller/Diop and another lottery pick (like J.Williams who could become better than Francis or even Gooden or Stoudmire) with 2 lottery picks (Cavs and our own lottery pick ), Miller,Diop,Griffin and Torres we could take the title .(Trading Mobley or Taylor,K9 for R.Gizzard would also be a great Idea ) My Dream Lineup would be : Diop/Willis Gooden/K.Thomas Griffin/T-Mo J.Williams/Torres A.Miller/Gizzard IR ( i dont know how but we should get rid of them ) Mooch (i like him but i dont like his contract) Cato (i dont like him and i dont like his contract) Rice (I hate him and i hate his contract ) This lineup is way better than than ours and if we could pull some of those moves i would be thrilled.
Lets see: Steve plays in Houston and Miller plays in Cleveland. I think that has a lot to do with marketability. Remember how good those Cavs teams were with Price,Nance,Harper, and Daughtery, but they were never considered because of their market. Put Miller in a larger market and people would be trying to get their hands on him. As far as who's more valuable, take Miller off thatteam for 17 games and their record would look like ours without Francis. Anyone who thinks Miller doesn't impact the games, just watch him play and you'll see.
<b>Francis_Rules</b>: You must be a stand-up guy... willing to trade the guy whose name your signature bears! <b>arno_ed</b>: How about lets not Trade Francis... or Ron Francis was traded by the Hurricanes. Do those bother you?
Marketability never won a game or a championship. We've had Franchise going on three years now and attendance has stunk especially the last two years. Some of you may find him exciting but that certainly hasn't translated to attendance in this market though his playing for the team might increase the overall value of the Rockets franchise which no doubt makes Les happy. If we could trade Steve for Andre Miller and a high #1 pick like Gasol or Eddie they wouldn't have to ask me twice. That's a deal and the private jet is on the way.
No way. There's NO, absolutely NO, guarantee of ANY player in the draft turning onto what he's expected to become in the NBA. No one said Marketability wins championships, but did you ever stop to consider the seats might become more empty without Steve?
The thing about the draft picks is are we going to get another Langhi or Collier or Griffin? It's about 50-50, AND we'd have to wait 2-4 years to see them develop.
I am beginning to change my mind about Francis, I think Miller is a Smarter player, and thus may translate into more wins. Francis is just too flashy, and not committed on defense. He frustrates me as he seems to not take basketball as seriously as he should. Kobe Bryant gets it, Francis doesn't. DD
