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Military Coup Against Democratically Elected President of Honduras

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Kwame, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    Where is the concern, outrage, condemnation, and coverage of this incident amongst western governments, media, and the general public?
    _________________________________________________________________

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-06/29/content_11619084.htm

    Honduras' president ousted in military coup

    TEGUCIGALPA, June 28 (Xinhua) -- Honduras' Congress on Sunday appointed speaker Roberto Micheletti to replace ousted Manuel Zelaya as the country's acting president.

    The announcement was made at a parliament session that began with the reading of a resignation letter that Zelaya said was false.

    The letter, read out by secretary of the legislature, Jose Alfredo Saavedra, said that Zelaya had resigned due to "serious health problems."

    But later in the day, speaking at a joint press conference with Costa Rican President Oscar Arias Sanchez in San Jose, Zelaya said "I have not resigned."

    Zelaya said he was kidnapped and flown to Costa Rica against his will and he did not sign a letter of resignation.

    "I was kidnapped with force, violence and brutality," he said. Zelaya said that between eight and 10 hooded and heavily armed soldiers had entered his home and forced him to board a plane without telling him the destination.

    "I was in my pajamas and did not even have socks on," he said.

    "This move is a blow to a nation and a slap in the face for the whole world," he added.

    Honduras' Supreme Court issued a statement backing the armed forces, saying that the coup was "actions taken based on rule of law."

    Honduras was due to hold a national referendum on Sunday aimed to clear the way for Zelaya's re-election.

    Zelaya, who was elected in November 2005 to a non-renewable four-year term, was set to step down in January, 2010.

    He had sought to revise the constitution through a referendum to allow him to seek another term, which aroused strong opposition from the parliament, the army and the supreme court.

    Honduras' Presidency Minister Enrique Flores Lanza said on Sunday the cabinet was launching a campaign of "peaceful civil resistance" to bring President Manuel Zelaya back to office.

    "We are making a call and talking with patriotic leaders in Honduras, because we will begin a peaceful civil resistance in whole country," said the minister.

    "People of the country are demonstrating to oppose the attack on democracy," he said.

    Local media said eight ministers, including Foreign Minister Patricia Rodas, have been detained, but gave no further details.

    Officials from the military told Xinhua Sunday morning that the armed forces have controlled the main roads in the capital and cut off traffic links with the outside.

    Few people could be seen on most of the streets in Tegucigalpa, and stores and shopping malls were closed.

    Several countries as well as regional and international organizations denounced the military coup and called for a respect for the rule of law in the country.

    Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said if a new Honduran government is sworn in after the coup, he will "bring them down." He said if Venezuela's envoy to Honduras was harmed or troops entered the

    Venezuelan embassy, "we would have to act militarily."

    Cuba condemned the military coup and demanded Zelaya's immediate return to office. "I denounce the criminal, brutal character of this coup," said Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez.

    Ecuador described the event as "violating the most basic rules for democratic coexistence and international law."

    The Organization of American States (OAS) condemned the coup and called for the immediate reinstallation of Zelaya during an extraordinary session on Sunday. OAS Secretary General Jose Miguel Insulza said the move was "a serious upset to the continent's democratic process."

    The European Union issued a unanimous condemnation of the coup and echoed the OAS' call for Zelaya's return to power.

    Immediately after the coup, U.S. president Barack Obama called for all actors in Honduras to "respect democratic norms, the rule of law and the Pan-American Democratic Charter."

    A U.S. presidential spokesman said the nation would only recognize Zelaya as Honduran president and denied any U.S. involvement in the coup.

    The Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas (ALBA) condemned the coup and called an extraordinary meeting in Nicaragua to discuss the matter.

    _________________________________________________________________

    Other links:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_...ran_president_is_ousted_in_military_coup.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/w...&bl&ei=5087&en=ca700df1554dddd1&ex=1246420800
     
  2. aghast

    aghast Member

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    Dude, a lifelong sidekick, the King of Pop, a 70s pinup, and a pitchman extraordinaire just died. Our priorities have spoken.

    Also, though the coup is complicated by Zelaya's attempts to bypass laws preventing his reelection, whether it's getting much coverage or not (it was about the third or fourth story on CNN this morning), it does seem most governments' reactions are somewhat unanimous in rejecting the overthrow.

     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    It just happened yesterday, I saw a report on the news about it today - what is your point.
     
  4. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    Maybe the Honduran people should be singing this:

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nvWMLAWrEjU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nvWMLAWrEjU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    Lets see if it's reported and portrayed the same way as the other supposed "coup" that occurred. It already looks like it won't be getting the same attention.

    Funny how you and the other poster that responded, aghast, didn't condemn this.
     
  5. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    At least we are spared the embarassment of having Reagan-Bush types yacking about democracy yet supporting coups against democratically elected officials they didn't want to win.
     
  6. aghast

    aghast Member

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    I agree, it is funny, because our voices carry so much weight in this matter.

    If only Fisher and I condemn this heinous action, those behind the coup will give up / reinstate Zelaya?
     
  7. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    I'm just trying to see how consistent people are going to be when discussing issues like democracy. I want to see if it's going to be applied across the board or selectively. The fact that the first reaction wasn't condemnation says a lot.
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Yeah, I figured it had something to with you deciding to line yourself up with the Iranian hardliners for the sake of some BBS pride.

    There's been a lot of posts in that thread by the way since you "lost interest" and directly contradicted a number of your claims. I guess you are interested again, hence your reason for starting this thread? :confused:
    OK - I condemn it. Are you happy?
     
  9. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    It looks like this guy tried to break the law. This doesn't look like clear cut right and wrong case.
     
  10. aghast

    aghast Member

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    To wit, you'll also notice that Tehran coverage is receiving even less coverage than the Honduran overthrow. They're both on the backburner, as judged by the major cable networks. Tehran coverage had already soured, but picked back up briefly with the footage of a telegenic protester being shot.

    Then four celebrities died. Cable news decided Neda wasn't as f---able as Farrah Fawcett or Michael Jackson's molestation victims, after all. As I said, our national priorities have spoken.

    As Air Langhi points out, Zelaya was trying to circumvent his nation's supreme court in order to maintain power. It's not a clear cut case. Clearly, an armed coup is undemocratic. But which side is "democracy" on in this case, if both sides were trying to subvert the rule of law?

    Per the NY Times' original write-up:
     
  11. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    See my response to aghast. In relation to Iran, while I lost interest in that thread, I couldn't avoid it on the internet and media in general (it was everywhere), and all the so-called "evidence" that was presented as proof of fraud, did not stand up against scrutiny and all those allegations of election rigging have been disproven in one way or another, but whatever. I'm going to wait for the media to lineup a bunch of "experts" so that they can demonize the military dictatorship in Honduras and tell us all how evil they are. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a long time.

    Yes, as long as it's sincere.

    From what I understand he was seeking another term in office and was going to put the issue before the general public in the form of a referendum so the people could vote on if term limits should be adjusted. I'm not sure how their Supreme Court ruled that a referendum is constitutional...maybe they overstepped their boundaries. Anyways, before that could happen, the coup took place.

    However, lets say he did try to break the law, in a democracy there are rules, procedures, and safeguards in place to avoid that. For example, they could've begun the process of impeachment. I hope people condemn this the same they viciously condemned what supposedly happened in Iran.

    So you're not condemning it. Cool, we all know where you stand.
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    BWAHAHAHAHAHA, please elaborate on this one. Because after you ran from the thread we weren't privy to this information.
     
  13. aghast

    aghast Member

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    With the fascists? Apparently I always end up with the fascists. Hooray, me?

    "Rules, procedures, and safeguards in place" that Zelaya already ignored, instead taking to the streets with mobs. Do you even read the articles you post?

    Also, what's the difference between a mere condemnation and a "vicious condemn"ation? Is it like dunks in basketball; will I get my own poster? If I decide that my voice does indeed matter to the people of Honduras, I want to be able to "viciously condemn" appropriately.
     
  14. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    I didn't run from anything. Anytime anyone asked me a question or challenged me, I responded. I can't say the same for everybody else. I lost interest in debating that issue here on this forum, because to me nobody was going to change their mind and that's how I still feel. Let's stick to the military coup against the democratically elected president of Honduras please. What do you think should be done? Sanctions, covert support and funding of democratic forces, or other measures?

    It's real simple: Do you condemn this or not? Yes or no?
     
  15. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    Out of courtesy to you, I should respond to the question you asked. My answer is yes, I did read the articles I posted. Let's say he broke the law, is a military coup and subsequent military dictatorship the right answer or should they have begun an impeachment process? Hopefully, you'll answer the question I asked above and the one in the previous post.
     
  16. conquistador#11

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    I would usually agree with you kwame, but even comrades in the liberal party, zelaya's party, thought that zelaya had crossed the line with the referendum to a constitution that cleary states no referendums.
    Now if zelaya had been replaced by a righty....that would have been a good enough reason to take it to the hills, instead zelaya was replaced by a fellow leftist.

    To my fellow leftist latin americans leaders:

    As long as there is not a disciple of no.40 (or son of a disciple) in the white house, we are safe.


    Accomplish 20% of the promises made to the people, and our parties will continue to strive. (20%> 0%, what the corrupted right offers.)


    And as a comrade M. Jackson would say,
    I See The Kids In The Street,
    With Not Enough To Eat
    Who Am I, To Be Blind?
    Pretending Not To See
    Their Needs.
    nananananana

    :moonwalks out of the D&D and into the garm:
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Let's hope the military of Iran has the same fortitude to do this to their crappy government.

    DD
     
  18. Sacudido

    Sacudido Contributing Member

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  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    That's because the position you took was asinine and not supported by facts, other than your circular reasoning. Accordingly nobody was going over to your side, true.
     
  20. aghast

    aghast Member

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    If you agree that previously ignoring supreme court edict is illegal, why would you think he would willingly stand trial for impeachment?

    If my reading of the fact pattern is correct, Zelaya attempted to get the military's backing in his unconstitutional (per the supreme court: separation of powers, rule of law 'n such) power grab. They refused, and instead removed him from office extralegally. Does any of this sound the remotest bit legal, or to use your word, like "democracy" (in which democracy stands for more than just street mob rule, and requires the separation of powers, a constitution, etc.)?

    To answer your pertinent questioning, as per the coup d'etat itself, I neither condone nor condemn. I condemn the military coup, as I condemn the illegal referendum that begat it. Or, as I'm betting you also are not an expert in Honduras, who knows, maybe they're both right? In such situations, I find the cloak of my own apathy to be so very very comforting.

    I do condemn, however, your lack of understanding of the way the American media and our national attention span works.

    Every day of the week: Wacko Jacko >>>> any Latin American constitutional crisis. (Hint: this was true even when he was alive.)

    Heads up! Billy Mays might have had a luggage-induced aneurysm! What will Liam Neeson say? Details at 11.
     

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