Militants Overrun Mosul

It's not that simple but you don't leave until the conditions in the area are different than the conditions that led to the war to begin with. Look at the world wars, the first one ended with a crippled Germany which led to the second world war, after that one, we didn't leave a crippled country behind, we rebuilt it so as to not have the same problem again a few years later.

We need to leave Iraq better than it was before we went in. Yes, that's expensive, but it's what should happen. How long were we in Germany? Oh wait, we're still there for the most part.

 

Fixed.

 

Pretty much. We should work to make it to were Iraq is one of the most prosperous nations in the middle east, and stick around to help them with security. We'd gain a tactically advantageous base in that part of the world, and we'd have a success story in the region. Of course, the idea that Americans are weak willed isn't just a stereotype, it's reality so doing the right thing wasn't exactly politically acceptable, thus we ran away as quickly as possible.

 

By lowering taxes of course.

 

How did/do we pay for the indefinite presence in Germany? Oh, but those people are white so I guess it's okay to help them out right?

 

The logical inconsistences and departure from reality require a

 

Really? Point them out rather than posting a meme.

 

The point is that it was the right thing to do then, and it's the right thing to do now. No one said it would be easy, the right thing rarely is. I would propose shutting down operations in Germany and simply moving them to Iraq. Keep a permanent base in country moving forward until a time where it is no longer required to assist with security....even if it's 50 years.

Obviously there are differences between Germany and Iraq, but what needs to be done is the same. The country needs to be re-built, and they need a US, or even UN presence to provide security during the next several years while they get back on their feet. It could even take decades, but that's just what needs to be done.

 

Good lord. Bush Jr. invaded and occupied Iraq while we were at war against AQ and their allies, the Taliban, in Afghanistan. It would be nice if those involved in this discussion would attempt to at least keep that straight. Invading and occupying Iraq resulted in diverting our resources from the main theater, Afghanistan, helping to prevent the capture or killing of bin Laden, and prolonging the conflict, in my humble opinion. At the time, Iraq was under the thumb of a brutal dictator, something not a secret to anyone. We do business with brutal dictators all over the world. Heck, one could argue that Saudi Arabia is ruled by a brutal dictatorship dressed up with a royal family that's cranking out princes like some god damn rabbits. Should we invade and occupy that place? Are we supposed to invade and occupy all of them? Just a few, here and there? I hope everyone can make up their minds about that, including the Republicans in Congress, busy castrating our armed forces. But sure, blame everything on President Obama. Blaming the situation in Iraq on Barack Obama takes absurdity here to a new level.

Oh, and Germany is nothing like Iraq. Not the country, not the people, not the political system, and we no longer have a presence there remotely similar to what we had during the height of the Cold War. In fact, if Putin hadn't gone off his rocker, in a few years we'd probably have a fraction of what we have now.

 

I really don't know how you came up with that based on what I said, but it was a pretty comically absurd comment so thanks for that.

None of that BS that you just said changes what should be done in Iraq. Leaving the country worse off than when we went into it will ensure that we have problems in the future.

 

Compounding a gigantic mistake by staying, indefinitely is just not realistic in any way. This war was a massive boondoggle from the start. It was poorly conceived, poorly executed, and poorly managed. The whole greeting us as liberators bull****. Dissolving the Iraqi military. From start to finish it was a disaster. Our military is great at blowing **** up. It's not great at playing neighborhood beat cop. Leave Iraq to the Iraqis. When Iraq starts spilling out of its borders, then we can go clean up. Until then, they have to figure out what type of country they're going to be. Let the Iraqis fight for the country they want.

And it's laughable this perception of strength and weakness. Starting a bunch of wars doesn't make you strong. It makes you stupid.

 

Compounding the mistake would be leaving the country worse off than we found it. Of course I know that Americans are far too weak willed to do the right thing so your "tuck tail and run" idea will be the one that wins out ensuring a terrible fate for Iraq and that we end up back there again.

 

Treeman, I would respectfully disagree with you on this subject. As someone who is from the middle east, I would like to point out to you the conflicts on Afghanistan's southern border with Yemen, or the insurgents in Iraq pre-US intervention, or the Kurds battle in Syria, northern Iraq, and parts of Egypt. Conflict has long been the defining factor of the region. To define it ultimately as Islam vs Infidel due to the relatively short US occupation would be somewhat narrow sighted. All we do in the region is fuel anti-west propaganda, nothing more... Who are we really at war with? An ideology? Good luck winning that war my friend.

 

Come on is right. You get all up in arms about me being uncivil, but throw out whatever insults you like and refuse to similarly chastise someone who has been more insulting in this one thread than I have been in my entire tenure on this BBS.

The "clowns" in this thread are you and treeman, two people who have thrown objectivity and reality out the window in favor of baseless claims by the pundits you seem to revere.

You are a sheep and it would appear that treeman hasn't actually chosen to think in a decade.

 

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You haven't used fact, logic, or reason the entire time I have been here, you're projecting in a major way.

 

You need to calm down.

You look foolish trying to discredit first hand accounts from a veteran.

It's best to keep quiet if you cannot offer anything more than that.

 

Based on this, we wouldn't have been able to leave until 3014, given that they have already been fighting it out for over three millenia, perhaps they are 75% done with their conflict, we only would have had to police it for one.