I agree with you, but Vick's money is what makes him a likely "kingpin". We cannot rush to judgement on how the legal issues, negotiations and possible trial could play out. Because Vick is so high profile, the feds have a lot to lose if they look foolish. My guess is their ducks are lined up straighter than normal (even for them). Knowing Vick's legal team will be gold-plated may discourage them from tacking on fluff that will be blown away easily. If Vick goes to prison and misses a year or two of football, his NFL career is likely deadmeat, or close to it. This will be a very lively story for a long time. I'm gonna get tired of hearing about it soon.
well, that's the truth. it could be a year or more before it gets to trial. i don't think it will go to trial. he'll offer a plea, i think.
absolutely. if they have the iron-clad case it seems they do then he'll cut a deal to minimize the damage. i think he is toast. we'll no sooner than people are predicting IMO.
I don't know whether he should be banned for life, but I remember reading that the Nazi's in WWII would force their soldiers to kill animals brutally to desensitize them when it came to the actual torture and murder of human beings. Abuse of animals is usually a pretty good indicator that a person is detached enough to abuse a human being. That's personally why I find it so heinous.
i meant that we'll know whether or not he is toast sooner rather than later. how long a conviction takes is another thing. but, they are saying that this county in virginia is known as the "rocket docket". we'll see.
i meant that i think it could be a while before he enters a plea to avoid the possibility of conviction. and my understanding is these dog fighting cases have taken prosecutors a longer time to prepare for than the average case, generally. damn it...we disagree again!!!
I'm amazed you can have SERIOUS doubts. Then the argument ends right there. Look, if you owned a house, and the house was being used as a meth lab, and you bought the equipment to make a meth lab, and you knew meth was being sold from your house, but you never actually sold any meth...guess what? You're a meth dealer. You're JUST as culpable as those who manufactured and sold it. He owned the house. He owned the kennel. There are witnesses who are ready and waiting to testify against him. This isn't just a matter of hearsay. Why? Because he's famous? Because he's rich? If anything, that would make it MORE plausible that he would try this kind of thing, since he probably thought he was untouchable. There have been multiple scientific and psychological studies that have shown that animal abuse and animal cruelty are strong indicators of sociopathic personalities. It is indicative of a person who has no conscience: no sense of right or wrong. That kind of person shouldn't be walking the streets.
because he's an nfl star involved in a lot of other time consuming ventures so what of mike vick's behavior has indicated this type of personality before. I don't see what your point is. I could see if mike vick had a history of violence and you're using it to illustrate this type of behavior is norm for him, but you're just making a statement about the links. its not evidence of anything.
hmmm..i guess that could go either way. i would argue that he gets paid boatloads of money to fund something like this and has considerable time off.
He's got a messed up kid brother, apparently messed up cousins, a house that gets used for dog fighting, friends who want to testify against him, but somehow he's clean in all this... haha yeah right. You give a piece of trash a million dollars and all you get is a trashy millionaire.
couple of thoughts....and if any of you practice in criminal law (or are still in law school studying it) i'd be interested in your take on this: 1. i'm hearing now it's a maximum of 6 years in prison...earlier i heard 3. anybody know which it is? 2. are the Feds setting this up as a RICO claim? is this organized crime? Refman and I were talking about this on the phone earlier. I had thought about it a bit last night as the facts were coming in...and then he brought it up to me as a possibility. Here's a blurb from an article written about a month ago speculating on this...note that the big part of this for Vick would be that, if they amend to add RICO claims, the penalties are FAR stiffer. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-pinkerton/a-step-backward-into-barb_b_51046.html But potentially looming above all other applicable laws is the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) statute, which Piccionelli describes as the "nuclear weapon" of enforcement mechanisms. The federal RICO act punishes the use of an enterprise to engage in certain types of criminal activity, such as the operation of an illegal gambling business under 18 U.S.C. §1029 or illegal transmission of gambling information under 18 U.S.C. §1084. And whereas the law makes antique references to "wires," all forms of electronic information-sending are covered by RICO -- e-mail, text messages, chat rooms, blog postings, etc. The RICO statute, a favorite among federal prosecutors, was designed to cripple and eradicate organized crime enterprises. If Vick has in fact engaged in any activity that could subject him to criminal prosecution under RICO, he could potentially be in serious legal jeopardy. The punishments for violating the criminal provisions of RICO are exceptionally harsh. For example, a person criminally charged with violating the federal RICO act faces up to twenty years in prison for each RICO violation. Additionally, the property forfeiture provisions under RICO are far and away the most severe under U.S. law. A convicted defendant could be forced to forfeit all interests in all property materially involved in or derived from the racketeering activity. So if the underlying criminal activity that gives rise to a RICO indictment was conducted out of a home, for example, the home could be forfeited to the government. Or the estate in, say, Surry. RICO also contains civil provisions that allow a private party, such as an individual or company, injured by a RICO defendant to recover damages from the defendant in civil court. A successful civil RICO plaintiff may collect three times the amount lost to the defendant, as well as attorney's fees and other costs associated with the litigation. So if Vick and others engaged in activities covered by RICO, then sponsoring companies, as well as shareholders, might have the right to bring an action against them to recover treble damages resulting from the illegal activity. Oh, and by the way, there's a RICO act for Virginia, too.
Exactly. Pro athletes get several months off every year. Other than school teachers, who can say that? Besides, he didn't have to be physically present to be culpable. If his friends were setting it up during the season, and he knew about it and/or was funding it, he's just as guilty.
Nothing. But there are certain crimes that, I believe, you don't get multiple chances. If someone commits first degree murder, I don't think to myself, "Well, he's never commited first degree murder before, so maybe this was a one-time thing." You get one strike, and you're done. He acted with malice and premeditation in torturing and killing animals for profit and, worst of all, pleasure. To me, that deserves the most severe penalty the law can allow.
i don't know 'bout all this RICO stuff but i'm gonna go out on a limb and say it now: vick has played his last NFL game.
i'm not ready to say that yet. they're really approaching that sort of penalty in the NFL, as i understand it, based on repeated problems. however...the nature of this from the indictment might cause the league and/or the Falcons to pull the plug on him.
I'm thinking you are right on this. I have my doubts on how long he will remain a falcon. Won't be easy for him to plea since he is at the top of the list. Madmax is right in that football is the least of his worries
max, the dog killing and fighting was repeated over and over. it was an ongoing and illegal operation since 2002.
i didn't think of it that way. you're right...this is a continued operation. not a one night event at a club. look at the big brain on gary!!!
