He's accused of drowning, killing, and torturing dogs who did not win. Part of dog fighting's training includes using "bait dogs" where they're mauled. And dogs who lose are usually severely injured, lose limbs, etc. You don't see the correlation between dog fighting and cruelty to animals??
I never said it wasn't cruel. I said the link you posted isn't about dog fighting. these guys aren't being accused of killing anyone are they? I don't even understand your point. because they killed dogs they would kill humans so it is as bad as killing humans?
I think the dog-fighting facts are actually clouding the issue from a legal perspective. From a practical standpoint, I think they kick him in the ass. The allegations are so distasteful that it forces endorsers to run away from him...it forces the league to have to wade through that crap. But from a legal standpoint, this case isn't strong because they tortured dogs. Merely fighting the dogs (though, i'd argue that's torture) is enough. It's the concept of this occuring over state lines...with gambling mixed in...and forming an entity to get all this done with a common purpose...all that stuff is what makes this case unique to me from the viewpoint of other athlete/celebrity issues. Most of the time we get the, "this guy did something really stupid" kind of stuff when dealing with pro athletes. This goes beyond that. This was systematically carried out over the course of at least 5 years. There was plan and purpose and organization. We don't typically see those sorts of issues and allegations in these high-profile cases. These are the sorts of allegations that draw the interest of the feds...but we don't typically see the feds indicting pro athletes. We see county prosecutors trying to make a name for themself. That doesn't happen in federal court. There aren't going to be cameras making stars out of prosecutors in federal court. They won't be allowed in. Finally, because it's the feds the likelihood for conviction is sky-high. We normally say things like, "oh, he has money and he's a celebrity...he'll get off because of that." We don't think those sort of things with regard to the feds and federal court proceedings. That doesn't carry the same weight it does in state courts.
the feds only got in the process after a local investigation happened to stumble upon evidence of dog fighting. I don't know if you're doing it on purpose, or if your judgement is being clouded, but you don't apparently understand how this even happened. the feds didn't hear about some large organized crime syndicate to fight dogs. vick's cousin was being investigated on drugs. upon entering the property they found evidence of dog fighting. this isn't the fbi going after the gambino crime family. this is the feds getting involved to try and make a statement. this is a few friends breeding and fighting dogs. as cruel as it is, that's all it is.
Who cares why the feds got involved? Max is talking about the law, and what he is being charged with....... The point is that under the law, it is organized crime. A gambling ring, spread out over several states, it is not just dog fighting in the eyes of the law. It is organized crime. And, if I was a betting man...and I am.....Vick never steps foot in the NFL again and does some time. PGab, at least you got Francis back ! DD
Man, Vick is screwed. If those allegations of him torturing dogs are true then I hope he gets all 6 years of that sentence. I don't think 6 years is nearly enough.
vick fighting it doesnt make it any better. he should have just rolled over and played dead to begin with (sorry, couldnt resist)
Taylor cops a plea RICHMOND, Va. -- One of Michael Vick's co-defendants pleaded guilty Monday to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges in a plea agreement with prosecutors. Tony Taylor, 34, who will be sentenced Dec. 14, said he was not promised any specific sentence in return for his cooperation with the government. Taylor faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, but likely will get less under federal sentencing guidelines. The guideline range will be determined by court officials, and U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson can depart from that range if he finds aggravating or mitigating circumstances. "You're pleading guilty and taking your chances, right?" Hudson asked Taylor. He responded, "Yes." Taylor had the same answer when Hudson asked: "You have agreed to cooperate fully with the United States, is that right?" Taylor, of Hampton, entered his plea to conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities, and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. Vick, the star quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons, and two other co-defendants pleaded not guilty last week to the same charges. The written plea agreement requires Taylor to "testify truthfully and completely at any grand juries, trials or other proceedings." It says any truthful information provided by Taylor cannot form the basis of a stiffer sentence or additional charges. Prosecutors already have said a superseding indictment will be issued next month, which could mean more charges against Vick and the remaining co-defendants. Taylor and his attorney, Stephen A. Hudgins of Newport News, refused to answer reporters' questions as they left the federal courthouse after the 15-minute hearing. Prosecutors claimed in a July 17 indictment that Taylor found the Surry County property that Vick purchased and used as the site of "Bad Newz Kennels," a dogfighting enterprise. "The 'Bad Newz Kennels' operation and gambling moneys were almost exclusively funded by Vick," a statement of facts supporting the plea agreement and signed by Taylor says. The statement also lists several dogfights that Taylor claims Vick attended in Virginia and other states. The principals in the dogfighting ring split any winnings, and Taylor -- who spent most of his time raising and training the pit bulls -- used his share for living expenses, according to the statement. Taylor also confirmed the indictment's claim that he helped purchase pit bulls and killed at least two dogs that fared poorly in test fights. According to the 18-page indictment, the dogfighting ring executed underperforming dogs by drowning, hanging and other brutal means. It alleges that the fights offered purses as high as $26,000. Taylor left the enterprise after a falling out with co-defendant Quanis L. Phillips and others in September 2004, according to the statement of facts. The grisly details outlined in the indictment have fueled protests and public outrage against Vick. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has banned Vick from the Falcons' training camp while the league investigates. Vick and Purnell A. Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, and Phillips, 28, of Atlanta, are scheduled for trial Nov. 26. They remain free without bond.
why does this matter?? the feds got in the process because it was an interstate endeavor. of course they piggy-backed the local investigation.
the feds got in the process and then added the interstate charges. how could they know before they got involved. the point is you're arguing as if the feds don't have an agenda. they do.
actually that isn't true, the feds can pick and choose who they want to prosecute, they aren't under the same obligations as local law enforcement.
my understanding is they've been frustrated with the states, particularly southern states, for not going after dog-fighting stuff before. this makes a huge public example. that's the agenda, as best I can tell.
