This is more than that. It's organized crime covering 9 states in this case, alone. You can argue, as conservatives have for years, that criminal law really belongs to the states. But that went the way of the dodo bird after the creation of mail fraud. Given the climate of criminal law over the past 25 years or so in this country, I'd say this is the sort of thing the Feds could/should be involved in. Particularly given its scope. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't thrown RICO charges at him, yet. We'll see.
I'm not at all. Dogfighting isn't a RICO predicate. Without two or more predicates, you can't have RICO.
ok, that's what i was asking recently in this very thread....why this wasn't a RICO case. the last time i THOUGHT about RICO in any depth was in law school. help me out with the predicates. how about gambling?
Well I actually just looked it up being a nerd, and operating a gambling business is a predicate - but the problem is that you have to have 5 or more people in the gambling business for it to rise to that level. Number of people in his alleged dogfighting ring: 4. Right now he is up for one count of conspiracy to violate the travel act, that's it.
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/p...n=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1 NFL: Vick to Take Leave of Absence Last Edited: Monday, 23 Jul 2007, 5:58 PM EDT Created: Monday, 23 Jul 2007, 5:58 PM EDT ATLANTA (FOX 5) – The NFL says that Michael Vick will be taking a leave of absence. Stay with FOX 5 News and myfoxatlanta.com for the latest.
It is actually an inter-state issue which makes it federal of course. He is accused of breeding and transporting dogs into other states for the purpose of fighting the dogs, gambling on the events, promoting the events etc.
Whether he plays in the NFL again, I seriously doubt he'll do so in a Falcons uniform. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4996608.html July 24, 2007, 11:27PM NFL Falcons' owner hints Vick might not return Goodell insisted on leave instead of suspending QB The Atlanta Falcons wanted to suspend Michael Vick. And considering the appalling allegations against their star quarterback, they may not want him back at all. Under an edict from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, Vick is barred from taking part in training camp while the league investigates a federal dogfighting indictment against one of its most prominent players. The Falcons revealed Tuesday they wanted to give Vick a four-game suspension — the maximum a team can impose — until Goodell asked them to hold off. He wants to take a further look at the charges issued last week and can dole out stiffer penalties under a new personal conduct policy. "This sort of behavior is really horrific," Falcons owner Arthur Blank said in the team's first public comment since Vick was indicted. "This is certainly not the player or the person that I knew the last six years." The Falcons said they considered all options — releasing Vick among them — and seemed to signal he will miss at least a fourth of the season even if Goodell doesn't impose his own sanctions. Most tellingly, Blank said he would encourage Vick to give up any thoughts of playing while the case is pending — even if it means sitting out the entire season. Vick is scheduled to be arraigned in Richmond, Va., on Thursday, the same day the Falcons open training camp. "This is not about playing football in 2007," said Blank. "This is a very difficult process he'll be going through over the next couple of months. It's very difficult to do that and focus on football at the same time."
The feds don't have the resources to go after every dog fighter out there. If you were dogfighting they wouldn't look twice at you. But Vick as a dogfighter is a big target that will create a lot of exposure and they will throw their resources at it. They select cases this way, Martha Stewart, etc. That’s why they have a 95%+ success rate, they don't prosecute everything but when they target one, that throw a lot of resources at it.
These are the types of stories that are going to destroy vick. This happened to one of my coworkers, people stole her dogs to use as bait. Luckily she got them back but she couldn't trust them around her kids after what they had been exposed to so she had to give them to her brother. ------------------------------------------------------------ Once likely a 'bait dog' for pit bulls gets a second chance By SALATHEIA BRYANT Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle To adopt Champ, seen above with trainer Jenny Lyons of Lone Star Pet Lodges, contact Houston Humane Society at 713-433-6421 or www.houstonhumane.org Champ is in training. He's training for a life in a home far different from the Liberty County compound where animal welfare officials rescued him in August. There, his life was likely as the "bait" dog used in a massive pit bull breeding operation. More than 300 dogs were discovered on the secluded property near Cleveland last summer when law enforcement officials responded to a fatal home invasion call. Some of the animals were puppies. Some were sick. Since then, all except Champ have either died or been euthanized. Champ was the lucky one. "He was destined to be mauled to death by pit bulls," said Lt. Mark Timmers, an animal cruelty investigator with Harris County Precinct 6 Constable's Office and the Houston Humane Society. "He had injuries that could only be sustained from fights. They don't maintain the bait dogs." Second chances are rare for "bait" dogs. Like the treadmills, weighted collars and water swimming tanks used to build strength in the pit bulls, bait dogs are training tools. Animal welfare experts say other small animals such as rabbits and cats also are used. Champ and another dog were found isolated in a kennel. Bait dogs rarely live more than four or five months. Once they are useless, Timmers said, their carcasses are thrown on a dump or burn pile. Dog remains were found on the Liberty County property, Timmers said. Humane Society officials named the mixed breed Champ to highlight his promise of a better future. He is short-haired and 2 and 3 years old. Officials say his short legs suggest he is part Corgi. He's gone through testing to determine that he is fit for adoption; however, Houston Humane Society spokeswoman Courtney Clark said he was put in the "Diamonds in the Ruff" program designed to give larger dogs and dogs who have been in the shelter longer a better chance at adoption. Clark said it was hit or miss whether the animal would respond to commands. He also didn't do well on a leash and although he accepted human affection, he didn't seek it out. Clark said dogs that are kept tethered outside without much contact to humans have a similar disconnect. "He was a nice dog. He had a good temperament, but he clearly didn't have that bond with humans," said Clark. Champ is finishing a six-week obedience training program at Lone Star Pet Lodges of Missouri City. He's learning basic commands to make him more likely to fit into a family, such as sit, stay and come. He's also socializing with other dogs in case his new home has pets. "He's a good dog. He's not aggressive," said Linda Fisher, assistant manager at Lone Star. "He's come a long way from his previous environment." Clark thinks he would fit in well with a family who can offer him lots of exercise and work on his new obedience skills. "We want some good to come out of this," Clark said. "We got there just in time to save him. He was such a survivor."
To me, whether he plays again or not depends on strictly jail time, and if its feasable to allow him to play. if he serves more than 2 years, then his career is over. but its way too soon to be talking about that. are you guys aware that leanord little played in the nfl after killing a woman drunk driving and being convicted. I understand this is a new commissioner with a new initiative but to say mike vick has probably played his last game is really projecting.
something else mentioned on the radio, the dog fighting charge is only a year, the conspiracy charge is five years, both maxiums, and being a first time offender he won't get the max.
pgabriel -- i'm not saying that vick is absolutely never gonna touch a field again. not at all. i think it's a very real possibility, though. a week or so ago, i thought it was doubtful. i don't think it's all that doubtful anymore. i think it's increasingly likely, particularly given the response of the NFL so far and the response of Arthur Blank. the feds don't let you plead out of prison time on something like this...particularly with a high-profile defendant. they don't negotiate probation. i believe he is more than likely going to serve time. First-time offender stuff isn't going to help him so much when you consider that the scope of these activities took place over a long span of time. We're talking about repeated actions in furtherance of all of this. And no lawyer in his right mind lets these facts get before a jury. No way. I'd be shocked. vick has been indicted by the Feds. not for getting wild at a party, but for being an instrumental piece in dog-fighting/gambling ring that spanned 9 states. he's fortunate this isn't a RICO suit (and if SamFisher is right, they're just one cohort away from meeting those predicates) where he'd be looking at 20 years for each offense!!! given what we know of goodell so far...and the precedent he has set...i think if this guy pleads guilty or is convicted, it's over for him. of course i don't know that to be fact. but it's how i THINK it will be resolved. i don't think the leonard little issue is anything more than an historical footnote at this point. Goodell's approach has been entirely different. i'm farily certain, given what we've read so far, that vick will not be playing for the falcons again.
a) there have been people convicted under goodell's watch who still play, and b) I understand its the federal gov't but its still a first time offense on a crime that only carries a max of 1 and 5 years
a) who? for what? remember...this isn't a due process issue. it's a publicity issue. it's a "do we want to be aligned/identified with this guy?" issue. goodell isn't a judge administering sentencing rules. b) which gives him a cumulative 6 years. soooo...can he plead it down to 2? maybe. out in 1.5, maybe. sure. all that's possible. but all this is really, really bad for mike vick and his career.
It's much easier for a team to sign a criminal defensive end (Leonard Little) than asking your fans to buy into a criminal as the face of your franchise - that's the problem Vick has, regardless of jail time. Add to this the fact that his QB skills have come into question, I don't think there are very many franchises that would touch him anytime in the near future if he were to be released.
a criminal defensive end? well if you put it that nicely, its a hell of lot easier, if you call him a killer, its a little harder edit: little's still in the nfl btw after getting a dui after killing someone
