1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Mike D'Antoni will not return as Rockets coach

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by J.R., Sep 13, 2020.

  1. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    15,315
    Likes Received:
    19,421
    Saddest thing I've seen.
     
    treyk3 likes this.
  2. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    21,809
    Likes Received:
    4,175
    we were trying to beat the most talented team ever and we lost one of the greatest point guards of all time at the biggest moment. i'm not sure "while missing cp3 was bad" quite covers it. it's hard to get a more devastating turns of events.

    i feel like people need to take bigger picture views of these things. lack of adjustments/making bad adjustments seems to be what almost every fanbase says about every coach who didn't win it all in a given year. i guess it could be true at times, but the vast majority of nba series results can be explained by the overall talent/coaching system of the two teams coming into a series. the warriors started the year -187 to win it all, one of the heaviest favorites ever. the rockets were +2150. knowing the talent of the two teams, the systems they ran all season, the the injury to cp3, if you knew nothing else about the series you would presumably think we lost fairly easily, maybe even before we got to the point of the injury. you would almost certainly predict a series loss once you heard about the injury. even if lack of adjustments actually was the reason we didn't win without cp3 and they had that big of an impact, then the coaching that led up to that point of a +2150 team leading a -187 team 3-2 in a series must have also had a big impact and must have been almost incomprehensibly good.

    it feels like d'antoni in phoenix. they completely surpass everyone's expectations of how good they are going to be, then get criticized for not winning it all, even when outside factors like the suspensions are also part of the reason the overachieving team didn't ultimately win.
     
    D-rock, jordnnnn and HP3 like this.
  3. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,937
    Likes Received:
    1,406
    I disagree, but I think there are very few great coaches.

    Great coaches make pretty much every team they coach better. I'm not sure MDA does that. One reason is that great coaches need to maximize all the players on their roster--everyone is good at something. I'm not sure MDA does that either.

    As for Vogel, I think he IS a good coach, but I'm not sure it matters on that team.

    As for Pop, it is a fair question to ask what has he won without Duncan? His system seems to require star players willing to subjugate themselves to his system. I suspect that's a big part of why Kawhi left. Duncan did do that. Most stars don't.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  4. rocketchamp

    rocketchamp Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    901
    Eric Gordon's still our most consistent playoff performer. He's also our best 2nd scoring option. What the Rockets REALLY need is to ditch Moreyball & run a real offense with actual plays. Gordon can be a 19ppg scorer in this league in the right offense. Harden's going to have to move off the ball & we're going to need a real pg like we had in CP
     
  5. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    7,886
    Likes Received:
    13,422
    so during that february run he was playing downhill like a monster. his whole game was going 100 MPH to the basket and reading to make the right play. If he is going to be running the second unit, We need a big who can shoot if we are going to have a small who cannot. I think he can make this work with a big man like Christian Wood or even Jerami Grant to shoot a little floater. Instead, we are going to see defenders cheat and focus on guarding between the rim and the three point line. This team is a mess.
     
    HP3 likes this.
  6. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    7,886
    Likes Received:
    13,422
    Russ isn't going anywhere. Eric is gone. If Eric isn't gone, we were able to sign Ibaka with the MLE.
     
  7. Highlyrated

    Highlyrated Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2019
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    458
    I would of fired him during halftime,clown wants to put a team with a guy 6'5 at center.Pj ain't no draymond
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    38,056
    Likes Received:
    19,711
    I've brought this many times before a playoff series isn't like a season. In a season averages play out because of the number of games that are played. In a playoff series one bad half or even quarter can be costly. That is pretty much what we saw in 2018.

    Now granted the Warriors are a great team and losing a CP3 is hard to replace. The Rockets were going to face an uphill struggle but it's how the Rockets lost that game. It was the seeming in ability to do anything differently. It was very telling that after the game some of the Warriors' players said they knew that the Rockets would start missing threes. Now that could just be idle post game bragging but Vogel made a similar comment at the start of the 4th quarter in game 2 in this last series.

    Again over a season there are highs and lows and you're not playing the same team in series. A good system can carry you through because you figure out what works best for the averages. That is the basis of analytics. It doesn't work so well in a series because even though you might shoot 40% that doesn't mean that in any game you're always going to shoot at that figure. Also as we saw in this last series when you're playing the same team in a series it gives the other coaching staff to focus and adjust more for what you're doing.
     
    fckbandwagons likes this.
  9. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    15,315
    Likes Received:
    19,421
    Imma be honest....I still dont think his February run was all that good. Like yea his counting stats looked nice...but the problem is that our lineups with him were still bad. Some of that is attributed to Gordon being bad(very bad) but Gordon was good this series and the Russ only lineups were still piss poor. That doubling of Harden is something that's gonna happen ALOT more next year. And all they have to do is sag off Russ, if you are a really good defensive team and you have good rotations...it gets even easier. All the Lakers have to do is stick AD on him, double Harden and its over.

    His defense is still piss poor....and teams are still gonna sag off him. Like..he isnt Giannis....I sound like a broken record here but the guy is flat out not as good as him and we have to play him like a big because the guy cant shoot. Dude's who cant shoot will always be a liability in the playoffs.

    Thoughts?
     
  10. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    15,315
    Likes Received:
    19,421
    Okay I see your argument and its a good one, but what gurantee is there that dude's who are bricking 3 pointers are gonna suddenly gonna start hitting mid range pull ups?
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    38,056
    Likes Received:
    19,711
    There's no guarantee but it is a matter of having options. Nothing is guaranteed in sports or life and if MDA had changed things up in game 3 maybe we still lose the series but I think there needed to be a recognition that what was being done wasn't working.

    Again you look at how much the Lakers changed how they played from game one to the game 2.

    Also for me I'm not even sure it was a matter of a massive switch to mid range jumpers. The thing that bothered me the most about the Rockets offense was how static it is. THis was brought up by the commentators many times that the Rockets have very little off ball movement. That was one problem why double teams on Harden were effective and how the Lakers got turnovers.
     
    HP3 likes this.
  12. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    7,886
    Likes Received:
    13,422
    Harden struggled during that period. This year was weird. No one seemed to click at the same time at any point in the year. One game it was the role players, then it was Harden (most the time it was Harden), then it was Russ, I can't remember an extended period where 2/3 of those groups clicked. MDA was checked out the entire time. Tilman thought it would magically work even with MDA as a lame duck. MDA thought he could play six players and it would just work. The world is a mess so it's not hard to blame anything on any particular person but it was a strange season, I'm happy MDA did the team a favor and said bye quickly. I truly think it COULD work with Russ here. I don't think it will, but Morey can do this. I think a big is the key. Capela with a jumper. Those don't grow on trees but there are options.

    Group A) Christian Wood, Jerami Grant, Myles Turner.

    These guys are perfect here. They also are highly unlikely. Any of these three guys would require Eric Gordon at least.

    Group B) Ibaka

    He's here alone because he's a weird outlier. He may take a bit less to play with Harden and Russ. MLE money. If we got Ibaka I would trade Eric for Oubre or Thybulle. we need to get younger and longer. Ibaka doesn't do that while group A does.

    group C) Bobby Portis, Nerlens Noel (closer to Capela but does occasionally shoot a bit further than the rim)

    Realistic low level free agents.

    Richaun Holmes for Danuel House could be an option too. House really blew it.
     
    D-rock and HP3 like this.
  13. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Tilman has Aids!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 1999
    Messages:
    6,324
    Likes Received:
    4,301
    Sad? Well at least you didn't say surprised because we all knew this before the trade even happened.
     
    HP3 likes this.
  14. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    21,809
    Likes Received:
    4,175
    why do people keep saying this? we were the 4th seed this year. we were the 4th seed last year. are we having great regular seasons in an alternate timeline that i'm not seeing? if anything, we were a much better playoff team last year than our seed would have indicated, given how close the warriors series was. this year we pretty much did what 4 seeds do: play a close series with the 5 seed and get whooped by the 1 seed. the only great regular season we had resulted in great playoff results. i'm not seeing this regular season/playoff divide.
     
    HP3 likes this.
  15. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    15,315
    Likes Received:
    19,421
    Well as far as the Lakers series go you are right but you werent really seeing Dantoni's real offense because Russ cant shoot and was a liability on both ends. Like No one has ever doubled Harden like that because he's been playing with Russ.....I just think with any coach you will see the same problems as long as Westbrook is here.
     
  16. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    15,315
    Likes Received:
    19,421
    I like your ideas, I think they are really great. I just think that as long as Russ is here....our future championship aspirations are over. He's only gonna get worse, not better. His jump shot will never be good enough to where playoff defenses respect it.

    I like these trades though. Would love to get Ibaka and Thybulle...but realistically Sixers would never give him up.
     
  17. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    42,053
    Likes Received:
    23,640
    Nah, the only thing the WArriors and Rockets have in common is that they shoot 3s. That's it.

    Rockets play HEAVY Iso ball, the Warriors simply do not. Their offense is very motion heavy, no one player dominates the ball nearly as much as Harden does here. MDA just is stubborn, he's even taken credit for the Lakers win saying they played small ball and won...nah, the Lakers adjusted and won, they won't play this way for the rest of the playoffs.

    Kobe said exactly what we saw, he was right, he literally said in this video here that how the Rockets play its easy to defend. It took Lebron one game to figure that out, just like it would have taken Kobe, just like it would have taken any player.

    Kobe wasn't wrong, that year man, the Rockets HAD CP3 and still lost.

    Kobe was right.

    Oh, and CP3 hasn't been a winner without another star too, that's a poor argument. Westbrook only time he had a star after Durant was a hurt Playoff P.
     
  18. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    7,886
    Likes Received:
    13,422
    It all hinges on MDA being there. HE is on record saying Eric is #1 his best defender #2 a third option. He values him highly. Josh Richardson doesn't seem to fit in there well. Eric would definitely fit in next to Simmons and Embiid and even Harris. The next step for them would be to find a dumping ground for Horford.

    I really think Russ can win here. I don't love him either but I think he can do it next year. He's going to work on his jumper all offseason, I'm predicting more attempts and a higher percentage. 34% with 5 attempts a game.

    The trade happened in July and he was rehabbing from surgery last offseason. He got COVID right before the restart and then got injured. I just have a really good feeling about next year if they get the right coach and get a big who can spread the court. Small ball is awesome as a forkball, we used it as our fastball. It's time for some diversity.
     
    D-rock, payaso and HP3 like this.
  19. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    15,315
    Likes Received:
    19,421
    We would have won with Iso Ball though? Like Chris Paul doesnt get hurt and we are there. Chris Paul plays like this year, last year and we are there. WE DONT TRADE FOR WESTBROOK and we are there.

    Kobe was wrong. Just because we didnt win the championship, doesnt mean we werent championship material.

    We lost cause he had a down year. And we still kept it close even with him having a down year.

    Disagree.

    Cp3 is much more of a winner than Westbrook will ever be. Cp3 last year was better than Westbrook this year. He had Paul George for two years and was trash in the playoffs. Both first round exists and both were expected to go to the second round. He sucks as a second option. His playoff stats have been getting worse and worse since his MVP year. If health is your concern well it doesnt seem like the guy can ever be "healthy" by the post season. And if he is.....then he just sucks...which is what the case is.
     
  20. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    15,315
    Likes Received:
    19,421
    Would love LOVE Josh Richardson on this team, would be great. Gotta wait to see who the coach is too, we dont know if itll be a Morey or Tillman guy.

    I hope you're right. But I dont think he's gonna work on his jumper either. He's 31, I think he just is who he is now. I dont think he'll ever be good enough and Harden needs someone he doesnt have to drag.

    But given looking at his playoff averages last year......I just dont believe it. Again...I really REALLY hope you are right but as of now....Im more in the trade Harden and Westbrook....camp. This loss was just so deflating.
     
    treyk3 likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now