The fact that Wilt led the NBA in assists one season should tell you something... It's like John Stockton leading the league in blocks. Wilt was a much better player overall then Jordan. Jordan may have averaged 30+ points a game, but how many times did the refs push him to the line on admittedly biased calls? If you're going to take away points from Wilt simply for being taller, you should take away all those free throws from Jordan for being more popular. Wilt wasn't just a stats monster, but he was one of the greatest athletes of all time. He was a champion high jumper and shot puter in college, and the Kansas City Chiefs even offered him a contract to play for them. ... And as for Wilt's dependency on the team to get him the ball, when he played for the Harlem Globetrotters(back when they were a legitimate basketball team), he played GUARD!!! Check out <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~airjudden/wilt/">this site</A> for those and even more amazing stats on Chamberlain(really, check it out. His accomplishments are incredible!)
AntiSonic, That is a fantastic site!!! I have always maintained Wilt was better than MJ,or anyone for that matter,and nothing in that site did anything to change my mind. Check out Wilt's stats when going head to head with Russell. Wilt and Russell are both widely acknowledged as 2 of the top 10,maybe even top 5 players ever,and Wilt just DOMINATED him.MJ has'nt had a consistant rival that's anywhere close to being one of the alltime greats.If refs gave Wilt the same benefits as MJ received,Wilt's career scoring average would easily be 6-8 points higher!!!
While I still contend that arguing who the "best" basketball player of all-time is a waste of bandwidth, I will freely admit that Chamberlain was the most dominant player of all-time. I don't think anyone can argue that. But, that doesn't mean I think he was the best center of all-time.... ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
Jordan could never even be considered for greatest player of all time because of all the cheating the refs did for him so get real Jordan lovers. Jordan is not even close so keep dreaming he is the best. Magic Johnson was the best of all time like or not its true. He is the most clutch player of all time and the best team player and forget that redneck flopping cheating Stockton Johnson was also the best passer of all time playoffs not noteibly.
brahma rocket... good topic! i always like debating this one. because, I too, have to always argue against Jordan being the greatest ever. personally, I don't have an opinion of who the greatest ever is, but I do think Wilt was more dominating than Jordan was. let me point out this one fact. people were saying Wilt dominated because he was being guarded by smaller white players back in his day. but also remember, back in his day there was no such thing as an illegal defense and no 3-point line. can you imagine how hard it must've been to get the ball into the post, considering there was no spacing and you were allowed to zone the passing lanes? also, a foul today is alot different from a foul back then. you can't even put a hand on a post player anymore. if you think about it, the league created rules back then to stop Wilt's domination. today, rules were created to help Jordan dominate.
What are you guys talking about? Hakeem was the greatest of all time! The Dream! Jordan? Whutever, hes a joke. Wilt? Bah! Why dont you guys start singing the praises of Karla as well! Hakeem - the best athlete of our century. Dreamshaked his way to 2 championships, and led his team to how many playoffs now? ------------------ Crisco melts in your mouth, not in your hands.
Arguing about "who's the best" when there are so many different eras, and the changes in the game, is almost pointless. It's like trying to say Tiger Woods is better than Bobby Jones, or Emmett Smith is better than Jim Brown, or Chipper Jones is better than Ty Cobb. You almost have to pick "all-era" teams and players. For example, IMO, there's never been a better team than the Celtics of the '60's: Russell, K.C. Jones, Sam Jones, Tommy Heinsohn, and John Havilcek. As for the "short, white guys" guarding Wilt, probably not many of you remember, or even heard of, guys like Jerry Lucas (at 6'8" probably one of the best defensive players ever), Ray Felix (6'11' - and black)from the Knicks, Russell, of course, Larry Foust at 6'9", Bob Pettit at 6'9", and Alcindor ne Jabar. Not exactly chopped liver, any of them. A "big forward" was 6'7", but some of the greatest were even shorter, e.g. Elgin Baylor at 6'6", George Yardley at 6'5", Paul Arizin also at 6'5", and Cliff Hagan at only 6'4". Guards were usually 6'3" or shorter. Today's players are bigger by far; their motor skills are superior (I remember my coach in high school telling me not to let our 6'7" center put the ball on the floor more than two bounces!). The big guard really didn't become popular until Magic Johnson. But I think the quality was different then - a smaller market and "stage", you had to play smarter. Salaries then probably wouldn't compare to today's meal money. A lot more guys played for the love and challenge of the game instead of looking for the biggest contract. I wouldn't want to revert to the "good old days" but I'd sure like to see a little more emphasis on the TEAM instead of the individual.
First of all, the reason why Wilt only had two championship rings was because his team sucked and he had to pick up all the slack. The teams back then were so stacked, it was unbelievable. Once Wilt was traded away to the Lakers and was playing with a bunch of great players, his stats went way down because of the other overall talent. Jordan has like six rings because they had a lot better overall talent on his team than Wilt did in his prime. It was a lot harder league back then by far. By the way, are you sure Kareem was only 6'3"? I'm pretty sure he was a lot taller than modern day point guards.
Francis3...you know what happens to people that "just play"? Keep it up and you'll soon find out. WE will make sure of that. Anyway, my take is that we are comparing 2 totally different players. Mike was the athletic and fundametally sound basketball player. Wilt was the fighting, low post banger that had awesome skills for his time. Ummmm...not to mention they played 2 different positions. Its impossible to say one was better than the other. Its like saying Isiah Thomas is better than Hakeem....you can not compare the two....ever. ------------------ There is no offense without a good defense.
Guys, it's tough to compare players of different eras. Let me start by saying that Wilt was the most dominating player ever, but Jordan was the greatest player. Wilt was a physical moster, where as Jordan was a fairly large guard who was mentally above everyone else. I'm not sure if Wilt ever got better during his career, but over Jordan's career he went from a pure slasher to the best all around player ever. He led a team full of average players (Kerr, Longley, Paxson, Armstrong) and one good complimentary player (Pip- Who can't do a thing by himself) to 6 rings. Wilt was dominating, but Jordan was by far a better player. Just ask yourself this from Wilts era who would you start a team with. Although most would say Wilt alot of others would say Bill Russell. I don't think you would see any arguments from Jordan's era (I know the Dream fans will criticize this, but truthfully everyone knows it is Jordan).
Please people, how many times are we going to vomit up the same tired old topics? How can you name anyone as the "greatest" player in a TEAM sport. We can only name the greatest at each position. So...if you want to say that Michael Jordan was the greatest SG in basketball history, fine. But greatest player? Save your bandwidth for something important...like the next Rockets win! ------------------ Just Win Baby! More Than Four Times!
No way is MJ the best ever. I think Hakeem has a better all-around game and I wouldn't call him the greatest either, though he is definitely my favorite. Jordan's definitely the best 2 guard, with the Glyde a close second. I'd give it to either Big O or Wilt. And concerning Wilt not being able to play today, that's ridiculous. Wilt was Shaq with mad skills. ------------------ Proud Cheerleader 'til we move to New Orleans 302
MJ is undoubtedly the best ever. Wilt leading the league in assists is a result of the double teams, that as a big man, he got more of, and realized late in his career that to win you have to make your teammates better. Jordan realized this earlier, that to win you have to be a team player. The evidence of this point is that Jordan won 6 titles and Wilt won only 2. What was the most athletic move you ever saw the man do anyway. Did anything he ever did make you run out on the basketball court and add 2 inches in hype to your vertical leap. Jordan made me do that. Michael Jordan's Playground, NBA Superstars 2, all show Michael defying gravity, physics, defenses, double teams, and expectations again and again. He had the most story book ending to his career, where though sick nailed the game winner and brought the Bulls back single handedly to win. You can talk statistics all you want. Is Babe Ruth really a better player than Griffey Jr (would you pick him for your team today over him) or better slugger than McGwire? Is Jim Thorpe really the better athlete in comparison to Carl Lewis? Again though I want to say it's not accurate to compare greats in other times! There are just too many veriables. I just want to you to know I'll take Jordan. [This message has been edited by CaucasionSensation (edited January 03, 2000).]
thats great , but were you around when wilt played? if you were i seriously doubt you would talk like that, and wilt was a college track star , so dont bring your wilt is unatheletic stuff here.
Caucasion Sensation, What if MJ went up against a team for most of his career that started Malone,Pippen,Dream, Isiah,and Drexler,with Stockton and Dominique coming off the bench? Would you be saying MJ is'nt the greatest because he never won any championships because the aforementioned team always beat them in the conference finals? This is essentially what Wilt went up against. Those Celtic teams had as many as 7 HOFers on their roster at one time,not to mention argueably the greatest coach ever. Saying MJ is the greatest because he won 6 titles in a dilluted NBA is absurd at best. Does anyone really believe he would have won any in the 80's against the great Laker,Celtic,and 76er teams,not to mention Detroit as well??!!
With Mjs team in the 90s going against the 80s teams , probably yes. Jordan is the greatest player of all time and that is just final.
It is sad that you can't build a time machine to play teams from different eras against each other. Remember that NBA rules were changed to LIMIT Wilt Chamberlain's game while NBA rules were changed to ENHANCE Michael Jordan's game. I would have loved to see Michael's 1996 Bulls go up against Wilt's 1972 Lakers with 1972 rules, allowing more physical play. MJ would have driven the lane to the hoop, and Wilt would have handed him his testicles on a platter! ------------------ Just Win Baby! More Than Four Times!
