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Michael Finley on James Harden defense

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BackNthDay, May 10, 2016.

  1. bulkatron

    bulkatron Member

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    Have to agree with you. Focus is a major issue.
     
  2. choujie

    choujie Member

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    I feel he has selfish issue. The Rockets team since Steve Francis left has been an unselfish team for many years until the arrival of Harden. Every star on this team at least tried to defend and tried to move the ball as much as possible. That includes Martin and Tmac when healthy.

    To me Harden somehow cares about "mvp" stats more than team success. He has ability to defend but doesn't want to sacrifice offensive stats for that.
     
  3. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    So you agree with me that energy is part of a player's talent? :p
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    :eek:
    You done stepped in it boy.

    First, I see you dropped your first argument that Harden doesn't share the ball ~ it's pretty ****ing difficult to be 6th in the NBA in assists without looking to distribute the ball, so good to see you gave up on that.


    Second - among players who handle in the EOG with any frequency, Harden ISO is one of the highest PPP plays in basketball. In fact during the playoffs, he's leading ALL players in ISO efficiency among players with > 10 attempts

    I'll post some more detailed stats later or or tomorrow or tables with numbers


    You will enjoy it. :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Endurance certainly is.

    But everyone , even peak load LeBron, maximized it by expending less on D
     
  6. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Neither do I. People want Harden to "trust his teammates" and "get others involved", while ignoring the fact that A) he does and B) his teammates leave a lot to be desired in terms of trustworthiness.

    How does Harden find his way to 6th in the league in assists while not trusting his teammates? Who on the team do you feel comfortable with taking possessions away from Harden to create the offense? Do people realize how much the offense falls off a cliff whenever Harden goes to the bench/isn't involved in a play?

    These are the questions I never hear answered. I don't even want Harden to have to do this much offensively, as it's not the ideal scenario for both the team and Harden himself, but right now, there is simply no better alternative.
     
  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    An excellent post. One I very much agree with. Last season, the players voted James Harden their Most Valuable Player. Of course, the large group of constant Harden critics here know better than the guys who play the game in the greatest league in the world. Right? (Insert a "Roll-eyes" here using your imagination, people. I never use the stupid things)
     
  8. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    This all comes down to you having no reading comprehension and completely lying about what I wrote.
     
  9. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    If I could rep twice I would. No need to apologize for Harden, he's not the one who went on live TV saying he still has to mature (At age 30) because he quit on his team. Big Baby should be Dwight's nickname.
     
  10. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    This has nothing to do with Dwight and SamFisher's post also has nothing to do with my original comment. I was strictly talking about Harden often going ego at end of game situations, but SamFisher created a huge strawman about me saying Harden never passes and that he is a blackhole. His point about PPP in ISO also has nothing to do with my post, as I strictly talked about EOG shooting, not ISO. But yea, what a great post. :rolleyes:

    http://www.nbaminer.com/clutch-time-stats/
     
  11. knickstorm

    knickstorm Member

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    LOL what? Did we not see that OT performance?without him they're down 3-2 heading into game 6.

    If Curry trusted his teammates as much as Harden did they wouldn't be here.

    If Harden can shoot 50/45/90, lead the league in steals instead of turnovers these Rockets could be a better team. LeBron hasnt been awful defensively. He effectively ended the series tying up Schroeder for the last jump ball.

    Try to compile Steph defense lowlights like people have with Harden, you won't have that nearly that much material to work with.
     
  12. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    You want Harden to play like Steph without having the benefits that Steph has. This is where having played team basketball comes in handy. Then you understand that defenses can't focus on Steph or others players will light them up. Harden doesn't have that, you focus on Harden and Corey Brewer is taking most of the shots, game over. It's no coincidence that the Warriors won a chip the year that both Green and Thompson improved.
     
  13. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    Talent is talent, lol. The Rockets need more of it so we don't rely on Harden to do everything. Harden is no Jordan and even Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. Not to mention Kerr and Kukoc.
     
  14. knickstorm

    knickstorm Member

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    Allen Iverson in his rookie year averaged the same amount of assists as Harden did this year, does that mean he trusted his teammates?

    There's a difference between an offense that generates assists where 3-4, maybe even 5 people have touched the ball at some point and how the Rockets typically do it, with harden dominating it and maybe making one pass.

    So of course once he checks out the offense falls off a cliff, they system more less turns everyone into stand and react mode rather than move without the ball.

    Is there a better alternative as far as letting one other person touch it more? Of course not, the system has to change. The question is, is Harden going to be willing to relinquish the ball more and move without it.

    And people need to stop with excusing his defense because of the offensive output. Look at those lowlight compilation and tell me which plays were the result of fatigue from the offensive end.
     
  15. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    Yes, yes it does actually, lol. You do know that Iverson was a point guard right?
     
  16. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Ok, so you acknowledge the system sucked and the coaching sucked and the supporting cast sucked.

    That's a team problem. Not a Harden problem. You know who doesn't have those problems? Curry, Lebron, Kawhi, etc. AKA the standard that Harden is always held to. You acknowledge there is no better alternative, which is precisely the point. Harden's got some flaws, no doubt. Those need to improve. But this whole "trust" thing? That's missing the point.
     
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Allen Iverson's rookie year teammates were awful - that's how they drafted Allen Iverson in the first place. He still had an assist rating of 30.6, which lead the team - which is pretty good, considering that he also had to compete with assists from guys passing to Allen Iverson. So I would say yes, he tried to distribute the ball to his teammates, considering he was one of the best in the entire NBA at doing so that year, and that implies a degree of trust.

    But anyway let's compare the offenses of the 2016 Rockets, and the 1999 Philadelphia 76'rs

    2016 Rockets
    PTS/G: 106.5 (4th of 30)
    Pace: 97.6 (7th of 30)
    Off Rtg: 108.3 (7th of 30
    eFG%: .516

    1999 76'ers
    PTS/G: 93.3 (21st of 29)
    Pace: 90.4 (13th of 29)
    Off Rtg: 102.8 (21st of 29)
    eFG%: .462


    Why we are doing this, I don't freaking know, but you brought it up - so good point!
     

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