What are your reasons for the NSA not pursuing them? What else could it be other than that they are a hindrance?
My reasons? I'm not the one doing it. I'd like to hear from them what their reasons are. This was your guess: No, Jorge. Not "Period." Let's take these one at a time. "Secrecy" A warrant issued by and overseen by a secret court is not a "blow to secrecy." Sorry. That's actually exactly what FISA was created for. It's clear you're in over your head here, since you thought the warrants we were talking about were meant to be served to the suspects. LOL. It was extra funny when you brought up credibility right after that faux pas. "Something that would slow down our efforts in fighting terror" Which is why the 72 hour rule was put into effect. Try again. "Distraction" You might have something here. Requesting a warrant probably is a real bother. This whole court oversight thing probably is like gnats on a camping trip to the Bush admin and the NSA. Congressional approval of judges and cabinet members is probably distracting too. As is congressional passage of budgets and all that other nonsense. Our whole system of checks and balances can probably be a real drag for a president. I'd venture it has been one for every single president in our country's history. But that doesn't mean they get to claim executive power and just blow those checks and balances off. Bush is a president, not a king. We live in a democratic republic with a system of checks and balances, not a monarchy -- as much as you and Bush and Cheney would like it to be otherwise. You're way off the reservation here, Jorge. My recommendation? Wait for the new talking points, post more baby pics or accuse me of being drunk. You're in over your head here.
Well Batman, surely there must be some reason why the NSA has decided that going after warrants to track al Qaeda phone calls is a hindrance to them. Do you have more information than they do? Of course you don't. You like to pretend that you do, however. Your 'rebuttal' to my reasons were a total joke, btw. The public supports the wiretapping. The public believes we are winning the war. On both counts, you are in the minority. Deal with it. Your entire premise for starting this thread was to attempt to convince readers that al Qaeda is winning and that the public is up in arms about NSA monitoring. You were wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Well Jorge, that kind of backpedalling is about as close as you ever come to admitting defeat, so I won't push it any further. See ya.
You continue to dodge the question. Your initial points were totally smacked down by the Rasmussen poll. Point Jorge. You then turned to your secondary point, which was the warrant issue. You dodge the question at hand twice. Point Jorge. You then retreat, declaring that you are leaving the thread. Point Jorge. Where does that leave you Batman? CONQUERED
From the beginning you've tried to frame this as one side supporting spying on terrorists and the other side being against it. Everybody here but you understands that's not the question since we ALL support that. The warrant issue isn't secondary. It's the whole freaking deal. If Bush had gotten warrants from the secret court that was created to issue them, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Warrants are the whole deal. But... somehow they weren't in the Rasmussen poll. HAHAHAHAHAHA... The poll proved nothing one way or the other, because it didn't even ask the question. In fact, were it not for the fact that the spying on American citizens was done without warrants there would be no poll and there would be no story. The only thing that's been proven in this thread is that you have no understanding of this issue whatsoever. You didn't know FISA issued secret warrants -- in fact, you hilariously thought the warrants were going to be served to the suspects! I'm not really into all this "owned" jazz, but damn Jorge. I hung in there with you, through all your silly posts and refuted every one of them. And yet, somehow, you won all the points and conquered me. You're a funny guy, Jorge.
I don't know what's funnier. That TJ seems to think that the issue of the warrant is irrelevant or that he actually thought that obtaining said warrant somehow blew the cover of the operation. LOL. Dude, I don't think anyone at all here has any problem with wiretapping Al-Qaeda. The entire issue is the warrant. We can't sacrifice those principles of checks and balances for some temporary sense of security. It leads to further abuse of power and when lines are blurred, you have lost your country. And this is just flat out scary: Reminds me of that clip of Britney Spears saying "I think we should just do what our President says because he's our president."
P.S: If it already wasn't settled, I think this ends any debate on whether or not the "TJ" character is real or one of the mods. There is no way that sh*t is real - that dude thought the suspects would actually be served upon obtaining the warrant! LOL. That is just too funny to be real.
The army of liberals is rushing to Batman's defense, after the CONQUEST. Hilarious. Need a bail out? Yup. If any of you liberals think that we believe you that this is all about a warrant, then you must be out of your mind. You guys have been advancing this story as some sort of move towards fascism and the like. This is about spying, it's not about legal technicalities and you know it. Batman's lame thread starting argument was morphed into an issue of warrants after the Rasmussen poll was posted. Funny how he waited until the first attempt flopped. His first try was that this was about spying on American citizens. Oops! That didn't work. Better try the warrants gambit! Hilarious. You are all over the map Batman. A sure sign of a lost argument.
LOL! I love reading your posts. Dude, all jokes aside, did you really think obtaining the warrants somehow blew the cover with the suspects being served? That is just too good to be true!
LOL! While I was reading through this thread, I kept wondering what he was talking about when he kept referring to the importance of "stealth" to ensure that terrorists don't change their mode of communication. I'm sitting here picturing some Bin Laden-esque fellow being notified that he is being spyed on. No wonder TJ thought we were nuts! This is too funny to be real.
What???? That's what it's been about from the very beginning. That's the whole point. Because of the spying on our own citizens without the judicial oversight our system of checks and balances require. No. It isn't about spying. Do you really think that? That is amazing to me. The only new thing here is the decision to bypass the warrants and the court. It doesn't surprise me that you consider our system of checks and balances to be a technicality. It isn't. You are hilarious. No. It wasn't. Whether accidentally or not, you got that wrong the first time. Read it again. And then go read a newspaper or something.
And by the way, after losing this argument in grand fashion, it appears as though the liberals are clinging to their last vestige of hope -- the warrants... 1) The public is outraged about the spying: False. Proven wrong by the polls. 2) The public thinks Osama is winning: False. Proven wrong by the polls. 3) Batman is outraged because of spying on US Citizens: False. Proven wrong by him re-reading the poll language. 4) All else lost, Batman thinks he can pin me down on the issue of upholding the checks and balances of our judicial system. What a joke. His partisan fury is focused purely on the spying, not on the legal technicalities. Why would I say this? The following fact: The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Annual Report (pdf) reveals that there were 1758 applications for secret surveillance in 2004, an all-time high. None of the applications for secret suveillance warrants were denied. The warrant-granting process is a TOTAL RUBBER STAMP. IT IS MEANINGLESS. For Batman to hoot and hollar that this is all about getting the warrant is complete and utter lunacy. This is *yet another* example of Batman putting up a fuss, claiming we are moving towards the Third Reich, slandering Bush, and saying that Osama has won. This isn't about a warrant. If Batman knew any better, he'd know that the warrant granting process is a joke. It's not worth the NSA's time, and they agree. This is why Batman wouldn't answer the question about why the NSA didn't bother with the warrant process. It's because the process was a joke. Batman's total argument is found to be a TOTAL FRAUD. OWNED
you so stupig.. you just realized now its all about the warrants? what did you think it was all about i the first place spying? you know spying is going on everywhere right? and btw, all of us are out here is because you're messin up big time.. its like sharks when they smell blood.. we all know you're just so wrong..
Batman, your pathetic attempt at an argument was exposed for all to see. You shifted gears no less than 3 times in this thread, in an attempt to salvage your argument. You failed. The last argument you clung to was exposed to be a fraud. For you to sit here and proclaim that this is all about a warrant is a total joke, considering that the approval process is a rubber stamp. This is not about the process -- the process is a cakewalk. This is about a hindrance to the effort of monitoring al Qaeda -- my point entirely. There is a reason why the NSA didn't go after the warrants. After thousands of rubber stamps, the process becomes a joke and a perfunctory task.... a task that you are pinning your hopes on in your lastest absurd Bush Administration 'scandal' -- a scandal which is supported by a minority of DEMOCRATS, not to mention a miniscule minority of Americans. GAME, SET, MATCH -- THANKS FOR PLAYING, ROOKIE
