LOL. Thanks for the inside scoop Rocket!!! And then there was one. hey Clutch, where is doc rocket anyway? This make believe stuff w/ Rocket!!! and oeilpere a) isn't very entertaining and b) takes up server space. Can we dress up aelliott to look like an insider? His concoctions might be legal and if he wants to be sassy he could write "That's all for now..." and the end of his posts.
Clutch, If Brand has signed a Heat offer sheet, then unless the Clippers are going to let him walk, he can't be traded to the Heat, by any team, for 1 year. I don't, however, find anything that would prevent the Clippers from signing and trading Brand to a team other than Miami, if Brand gave his consent. I would tend to believe that if there was a restriction on signing and trading a player that has signed an offer sheet, it would have to be explicitly stated in the CBA. Here's the only applicable thing that I see is Article XI, Section 6, item f and it just states that the Clippers have to have Brand's permission to deal him in the next 12 months. Article XI Section 6. Restricted Free Agency. Item f: (f) After exercising its Right of First Refusal as described in this Section 6, the ROFR Team may not trade the Restricted Free Agent for one (1) year, <B>without the player’s consent.</B> Even with the player’s consent, for one (1) year, neither the ROFR Team exercising its Right of First Refusal nor any other Team may trade the player to the Team whose Offer Sheet was matched. Since a sign and trade is just a regular trade that is coupled with a FA signing, I think that it would still be possible for the Clips to deal Brand to a team other than Miami. If I'm missing something on this in the CBA, I'm sure that HP will catch it.
aelliott- A sign and trade is not just a regular signing coupled with a trade. I'm not sure I understand what you're tryingo to say- that the Clippers can S/T with an offer sheet outstanding? I'll find the CBA text later if you want it, but as for just signing him and just trading him here it is from the Coon FAQ 78. If a sign-and-trade is not used, when can a team trade a free agent it signs? Do they have to keep him forever? A player cannot be traded until three months after signing a contract or December 15th of that season, whichever is later. If the Clippers match, it's a regular free agent signing, and he can't be traded until December 15. Thus, the 20 mill bonus that would have to be paid to Brand is being used as Miami's way to more or less prevent the Clips from matching with the intent of trading later (see Marc Jackson). Anyhow, here something else CBA... (h) There may be only one Offer Sheet signed by a Restricted Free Agent outstanding at any one time, provided that the Offer Sheet has also been signed by a Team. An Offer Sheet, both before and after it is given to the ROFR Team, may be revoked or withdrawn only upon the written consent of the ROFR Team, the New Team and the Restricted Free Agent. In such event, a Restricted Free Agent shall again be free to negotiate and sign an Offer Sheet with any Team, and any Team shall again be free to negotiate and sign an Offer Sheet with such Restricted Free Agent, subject only to the ROFR Team’s renewed Right of First Refusal. Basically, to give the Clippers the ability to negotiate again, Brand, the Clippers, and the Heat would have to agree to withdraw the offer sheet. Since the Heat can't make concessions to have the offer sheet not matched, there would be no point in this for the Heat to allow the Clips to negotiate S/T with other teams.
Well, even if we did get a sign and trade, he'd be absurdly expensive ... 28 million up front... According to <a href="http://www.boston.com/dailynews/197/sports/Miller_last_center_left_drawin:.shtml">Boston.com,</a> <b>The offer sheets to Brand and Miller were believed to be structured in such a way as to force Clippers owner Donald Sterling to make huge immediate lump sum payments up to $28 million in Brand's case alone if he decides to match. ''Today, we have received offer sheets from Elton Brand, Corey Maggette and Andre Miller. We will evaluate these offers during the 15-day period before announcing our decision,'' Clippers executive vice president Andy Roeser. ''As we have repeatedly said, it is our intention to match any and all offers as we see fit, with a goal of maintaining the nucleus of our team.'' </b> That's nasty! But, if Les would do it ... it'd be awesome. I can't believe there is a crack of an opportunity. But, you know we wouldn't be the only one making offers.
There's a chance, but does anyone really believe that Brand, the Heat and the Clippers are all going to agree to nullify the offer sheet? I can't see it, not when both teams want the player- at least one of them is not gonig to rescind the sheet.
Lol. That, and your Corey Spaghetti thing were the two funniest BBS things I've read this week. Also, Brand will be subject to a physical. That could void the contract altogether. Clearly, one of those two things will happen. If the Rockets don't end up with Brand this offseason, I'm going to become a umm...Lakers fan. Yeah, the Lakers will win.
NIKE, All I'm saying is that I don't find anything in the CBA that explicitly says that you can't sign and trade a player with a pending offer sheet. The only restriction I found was that Brand would have to ok the deal. Of course, you couldn't negotiate a new deal, the sign and trade would have to be for the contract terms in the offer sheet. The CBA item that you quoted refers to recinding an offer sheet, but I wasn't talking about renegoting the terms. I agree that you can't recind the offer sheet or negotiate a new deal. The real question is "Can you trade the negotiated contract to a team other than the Heat?". The only difference between a sign and trade and a normal trade is that you are allowed to trade the newly signed player within 48 hours. Also, there is a special form that states that if the trade isn't completed in 48 hours then the contract isn't binding. That's all, nothing else. Here's the entirety of what the NBA CBA contains on sign and trades: <i>(o) By agreeing upon provisions (to be set forth in Exhibit 8 to a Uniform Player Contract) stating that the Contract will be assigned to another team within forty-eight (48) hours of its execution, such assignment and the consummation of such assignment to be conditions precedent to the validity of the Contract; provided, however, that any such sign-and-trade transaction must comply with Article VII, Section 8(e). </i> Other than that one clause, a sign and trade is the same as any other trade. I don't find anything that says the following scenario couldn't happen: - Brand signs an offer sheet with Miami - The Clippers decide to match and get Brands consent to trade him to a team other than the Heat. - If the Clippers match the deal, then the offer sheet is no longer valid and the Clippers have a contract with Brand. - At the same time the Clippers match the deal, they also file the paper work for a sign and trade and the paperwork for Brand's approval of the trade. I really don't know if that is legal or not. All I know is that I didn't see anything in the CBA to say that you couldn't do that.
<i>Can we dress up aelliott to look like an insider? His concoctions might be legal and if he wants to be sassy he could write "That's all for now..." and the end of his posts</i> Achebe, Ok, you've found me out, I can't believe that you guys didn't figure it out earlier, it was so obvious. Following the '99 season, the big topic was what deal we would get for Pippen. My suggestion was to move Pippen to Portland for Rasheed Wallace and others. So, therefore 1) I was the first person to break the Pippen to Portland deal. 2) I knew about S.Smith's rumored Rasheed Wallace deal 4 years in advance. Could I be any more of an insider?
Brand's agent would need to have had exploratory discusssions with a third team that would be acceptable to Brand for a S&T and to have done this <b>while</b> setting up a complex financial arrangement with the Heat. Very doubtful this happened. Even if Miami would bow out and Brand's agent had a third team ready, do the Clippers want that much salary coming back in a S&T scenario?
the bad thing giddyup is that this is not the first time I've quoted Lloyd on this board. thanks NIKE. aelliott, I knew you had the scoop! Now, however, I'm afraid it's time for the makeover. I want you to go back through all of oeilpere's and Rocket!!!'s posts. Pick up whatever "hey I'm an *******" sort of theme they have going on, and incorporate it into your own posts. Right now you're like Timmy D. Amazingly effective, but not sensational. Pump up the volume, watch some Rome, that sort of thing.
Achebe, What a sideline loser! Do you ever have anything , but nasty negative comments from the bandwagon. All day , every day, I would rather be the guy who puts it on the line - then the guy that cowardly sits in the background and jumps on others to make himself feel and look better in his own and others eyes. You are the ultimate passive aggressive. All I have ever seen from you since the beginning is negativity. Man, you must really hate your life. Name calling is not my deal and I did not start this post to impress you. Frankly, I don't give a crap. You don't exist. This forum is a fantasy world. With what...you have +6000 posts in four years. Dude, how pathetic. This isn't your board. You don't have to run it, but yet you live here. You know there is a real world to live in...or is this your only ability for any meaningful interaction with other human beings? Pathetic....Get a life! Bottom line: If you don't like my post, go elsewhere.
You did put it on the line. You posted something as if you are in the know... and what you posted will certainly not happen. You're a fraud. I never responded harshly to you until you magically decided to become an insider on your 1100th post or something. If your fortunes have changed, by all means, I'd be glad to acknowledge another insider in our midst. So far, however, you haven't delivered. I'm a skeptic. Blow me.
Ouch! Achebe lays down the strong arm of the law mercilessly on ROCKET!!!'s fake insider status. ROCKET is as convincing an insider as a 200 dollar bill with Kelvin Cato's face on it... You GOTTA love it! Who craves attention? The guy who can't stand a fraud or the guy that wants the attention and status that comes with being an insider on this board? Nuff said! At least there's some entertainment to be had on this entire Brand pipe dream of ours...
The Clips could wait the 15 days and then match the deal. This would pull the rug out from under Miami as the Free Agency market would be depleted by then.
I hate to play along...but if the Clipps voluntarily offered up Odom (who supposedly the Heat covet), then the Heat may willingly let Brand off the hook? I don't see it happening as Brand is a better talent and fits better anyway. But if we're going to far-fetch ideas, hey I'm the K...well I'm not the king...Rocket!!! is, but I'm the court jester.
