Mexico to give border crossers survival kits

I am heading home now, but I'll hit a few things.

1) look at the services illegals don't get, they reflect the majority of our government funded (taxe derived) social serives (see previous posts).

2) check out farms, slaughterhouses, home construction sites, commerical construction sites, road construction sites, masonry workers, carpeters, roofers, plumbers, electricians (less so though) and other skilled laborers, janitors, hotel maids, child care workers, etc, etc. Immigration labor has a massive impact, driving all these costs way down. Though more pronounced in the border states (just one clear cut example, there is a reason you can get a new well built house in Texas for under 100K and not too many other places this is true), it also has a big impact Iowa, Ohio, Michigan, Wyoming, Montana, etc., just to provide a few.


[This message has been edited by Desert Scar (edited June 07, 2001).]

 

Mexico is trying to take back the lands it lost to the U.S.

(j;k)

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The next time I have meat and mashed potatoes, I think I'll put a very large blob of potatoes on my plate with just a little piece of meat. And if someone asks me why i didn't get more meat, ill just say, "Oh, you mean this?" and pull out a big piece of meat from inside the blob of potatoes, where ive hidden it. Good magic trick, huh?

 

This is a Mexican government decision to issue survival kits.

To me it's the same issue as government sponsored needle exchanges or condoms in school. A government becomes aware that a buncha people are dying by sharing needles, or having unprotected sex, or trekking across the desert to emigrate to the US. Isn't a government responsibile for trying to stop her citizens from dying? Even though they are engaging in behavior that is discouraged or illegal?

I'm in favor of government sponsored needle exchange. I'm in favor of distributing condoms to high school students.

So on that basis alone, I'm in favor of the Mexican policy.

At the same time though, it seems that the Mexican government is actively helping her citizens break U.S. laws. Another country sponsoring her citizens efforts to break U.S. laws? Other crimes, other times, other countries, that's called terrorism or an act of war.

I understand Mexico's obligation to prevent the deaths of her citizens. I'd rather have Mexico sponsoring Mexicans breaking US laws than people dying in the desert.

It seems like a pretty bold move from Mexico... Maybe this is a play by the Mexican government to spur changes in US immigration policy?


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.. But why shouldn't everyone be eligible for free condoms, not just high school students. Anybody can exchange a used needle for a clean one in San Francisco... maybe a government sponsored condom exchange where anyone can exchange a used condom for a new one?

...there might be some rough stuff out in that desert, so we're putting a pistol in the kit too, you might run into some rattlesnakes...

[This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited June 07, 2001).]

 

http://www.ocregister.com/news/16emigratecci4.shtml

MEXICO CITY - If it can't stop emigration to the United States, the Mexican government thinks at least its people shouldn't die in the process.

So starting next month, the government will distribute up to 200,000 survival kits to people planning to head north. . . .

Sorta like giving condoms to highschoolers or clean needles to addicts, I guess...

(feel free to delete)

 

That's a tough one. How do you balance the obvious need to control our borders and discourage illegal immigration with the need to keep illegal immigrants alive...?

We don't want to make it a walk in the park to cross the border illegally, but people are dying in the attempt-- and those deaths can be prevented.

 

Russ Martin, a talk radio guy here in Dallas, ad the TX gov. Perry on the phone yesterday. He said he had a few bits of advice to give him. The first one was to put Piranhas in the Rio Grande.

With that, I changed the channel. I know he was trying to be funy, but that was, well.....



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My doctor says I am bipolar. I am going to get a second opinion. I have never had intimate desires for polar bears.

 

that is the attitude, if you have trouble solving a problem....just give into it! Might as well give them bus passes and fake ID's, that would save lives too wouldn't it?

We could stop people getting killed during armed robbery at convenient stores, by just giving the criminals keys to the safe and allowing them to take all they wanted whenever they wanted.....


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Now this shirt is chafing me

 

Interesting-

The benefits of open immigration
BY MICHAEL TANNER
America has always been a nation of immigrants. Thomas Jefferson emphasized this basic part of the American heritage, taking note of "the natural right which all men have of relinquishing the country in which birth or other accident may have thrown them, and seeking subsistence and happiness wheresoever they may be able, and hope to find them."

The Libertarian Party has long recognized the importance of allowing free and open immigration, understanding that this leads to a growing and more prosperous America. We condemn the xenophobic immigrant bashing that would build a wall around the United States. At the same time, we recognize that the right to enter the United States does not include the right to economic entitlements such as welfare. The freedom to immigrate is a freedom of opportunity, not a guarantee of a handout.

A policy of open immigration will advance the economic well-being of all Americans. All major recent studies of immigrants indicate that they have a high labor force participation, are entrepreneurial, and tend to have specialized skills that allow them to enter under-served markets. Although it is a common misconception that immigrants "take jobs away from native-born Americans," this does not appear to be true. In 1989, the U.S. Department of Labor reviewed nearly 100 studies on the relationship between immigration and unemployment and concluded that "neither U.S. workers nor most minority workers appear adversely affected by immigration."

Indeed, most studies show that immigrants actually lead to an increase in the number of jobs available. Immigrants produce jobs in several ways: 1) They expand the demand for goods and services through their own consumption; 2) They bring savings with them that contribute to overall investment and productivity; 3) They are more highly entrepreneurial than native-born Americans and create jobs through the businesses they start; 4) They fill gaps in the low and high ends of the labor markets, producing subsidiary jobs for American workers; 5) Low-wage immigrants may enable threatened American businesses to survive competition from low-wage businesses abroad; and 6) They contribute to increased economic efficiencies through economies of scale.

Confirmation can be seen in a study by economists Richard Vedder and Lowell Galloway of the University of Ohio and Stephen Moore of the Cato Institute. They found that states with the highest rates of immigration during the 1980s also had the highest rates of economic growth and lowest rates of unemployment.

Studies also show that not only do immigrants not take jobs away from American workers, they also do not drive down wages. Numerous studies have demonstrated that increased immigration has little or no effect on the wages of most American workers, and may even increase wages at upper income levels.

Contrary to stereotypes, there is no evidence that immigrants come to this country to receive welfare. Indeed, most studies show that immigrants actually use welfare at lower rates than do native-born Americans. For example, a study of welfare recipients in New York City found that only 7.7% of immigrants were receiving welfare compared to 13.3% for the population as a whole. Likewise, a nationwide study by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics found that 12.8% of immigrants were receiving welfare benefits, compared to 13.9% of the general population. Some recent studies indicate that the rate of welfare usage may now be equalizing between immigrants and native-born Americans, but, clearly, most immigrants are not on welfare.

The impact of immigrants on taxes is more equivocal. Most immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in government benefits. However, the majority of immigrant taxes are paid to the federal government, while immigrants tend to use mostly state and local services. This can place a burden on states and localities in high immigration areas.

However, the answer to this problem lies not in cutting off immigration, but in cutting the services that immigrants consume. The right to immigrate does not imply a right to welfare -- or any other government service. Moreover, this is not simply a matter of saving tax money. The Libertarian Party believes that most government welfare programs are destructive to the recipients themselves. Thus, immigrants would actually be better off without access to these programs. As Edward Crane, President of the Cato Institute, has put it:

"Suppose we increased the level of immigration, but the rule would be that immigrants and their descendants would have no access to government social services, including welfare, Social Security, health care, business subsidies, and the public schools. I would argue, first, that there would be no lack of takers for that proposition. Second, within a generation, we would see those immigrants' children going to better and cheaper schools than the average citizen; there would be less poverty, a better work ethic, and proportionately more entrepreneurs than in the rest of U.S. society; and virtually everyone in that group would have inexpensive high-deductible catastrophic health insurance, while the 'truly needy' would be cared for by an immigrant culture that gave proportionately more to charity."

Finally, any discussion of immigration must include a warning about the threat to civil liberties posed by many of the proposals to limit immigration. Recent legislation to restrict immigration has included calls for a national identity card for all Americans. Senator Diane Feinstein (CA-D) has suggested that such an ID card should contain an individual's photograph, fingerprints, and even retina scans. Representative Lamar Smith (R-TX) has proposed legislation that would require employers to consult a national registry of workers before hiring anyone, effectively giving the U.S. government control over every hiring decision by every business in America.

Other legislation has contained provisions penalizing people who fail to "inform" on people they "suspect" might be illegal immigrants. Such Orwellian nightmares have no place in a free society, but are the natural outgrowth of an obsession with restricting immigration.



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I hate rice and beans!

 

I don't know about the economics part, but I have "witnessed" many hard working immigrants taking jobs that no one else want in return for below minimum wages. I do not know what the solutions are, but it is very sad.

 

Aren't Piranahs salt water fish? Or are they freshwater fish or both?

Haven: Yes, I feel sorry for them too. But where do you draw the line? There are people worse of in Africa.

I disagree with them helping the economy. Yes, to a certain point they do, but then they start over running the cities and bring the value down. Over time, we too will become like a 3rd world country where half our people can not find jobs.

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"Bada Bing!"

 

Hey you can fit all of the people in the world, all 6 billion plus, in Rhode Island and still give everyone 2 square feet or so.

I call bull on this one. I hear Limbaugh-style "statistics" like this bandied about constantly, and everytime I do I'm amazed that no one questions them.

I'm not saying that I think there's overcrowding-- far from it-- but I don't believe that you can cram 6.3 billion people into Rhode Island with 2 sq feet between each of them.

 

Rhode Island is 33,844,377,600 sq feet. Assuming including the 2 feet you would need 5 feet total per person, then yes all 5 bil could fit in Rhode Island

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Now this shirt is chafing me

 

1) There are 6.3 billion people on Earth, if I'm not mistaken.

2) Rhode Island is 1,214 sq miles in size according to its travel and tourism website. I'm obviously exposing my History/English major here, but how did you arrive at the conclusion that RI is 34 billion square feet in size?

 

5280 feet = 1 mile.
5280 times 5280 = 27,878,400, which is 1 square mile
27,878,400 x 1,214 = 33,844,377,600



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Now this shirt is chafing me

 

Brian, this is the same B.S. I hear that China is so over crowded.

Brian, come on... You are the administrator of this site!!!

I may be a lot of things but I'm not a B.S.'er.


Oh, and do you think that Illegal immigrants don't get taxes taken out of their pay checks as well? They pay sales taxes, income taxes, etc. like we all do.

And what a bummer, even if they are due a refund they can't collect it!!!!

Don't fret on the Immigrants. They are a huge reason that this countries economy has exploded. They've contributed their share.

Politics is all bad. Politicians stir any emotions no matter how silly to sway your vote and make a dumb ass issue. Anyway to get your vote!!! I recommend you sit back and see how the immigrants have helpt this country so much.

Expensive labor is the beginning of the end for all great civilizations!!!!! Keep that in mind.

Maybe I misunderstood your writing tone!!! But if I did, that was still something that had to be said.

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The reason that I brought up China is to discuss all the extreme birth control that resulted from the exaggeration of the population problem. So wicked laws were made. People were killing their children if they were little girls because they wanted to have a boy. How sad is that. Oh, but if you had the money you could buy the right to have as many kids as you wanted. It's all class segregation.

Look, Kansas can plow enough corn to feed the whole world!!! A fact.

So, you can fit all the worlds population in Rhode Island assuming there were no lakes.

And feed the worlds population just with the size of Kansas.

How big is China?
How big is the U.S.?

A lot bigger than Rhode Island and Kansas put together.

The problem in China is that the government forces people to move to the big cities, leaving the fruits of the rich soil to a few. A communism of the elite!!!


When I hear people complain that there are too many immigrants in this country, it upsets me!! Not because I disagree. But because the next thing I know some dumbass proposition segragating all Hispanics would come up next.

Immigrants are aware that there is always a risk coming to this country illegaly. Now the government want's what is best for its citizens in a no wins situation in Mexico and other latin american countries.



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How do illegals pay taxes when they aren't even on the payroll ? I think most of them get paid under the table. If they were paying taxes, wouldn't the government eventually figure out that they were illegal ? Also, if some illegals make less then the minimum, wouldn't the government have a problem with that ?

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"norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."

 

Well, nothing personal Vince. I just wanted documentation-- 34 billion sq ft seemed like an awful lot.

Have you ever heard someone say they heard Mariah Carey say she'd like to be as skinny as "those Ethiopian kids... except without the flies and death and stuff"....?

Have you seen that list of malapropisms attributed to Dan Quayle, Al Gore, or GWB...?

Probably, you have. A lot of things that sound plausible get repeated even though they're wrong. That's what I thought was going on in this case-- and I was wrong. So I apologize if you were offended.



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"It's a funny thing, 'friends'

You got beginnings and you got ends

I guess I'll see you when we're ashes again-- Chris Robinson

 

G8-1, Illegal immigrants do pay payroll taxes as well. A little note to you, Illegal social security cards. Just to work!!!

And Brian, I did kind of get the feeling that you weren't making a personal attack. I understand, and sorry for going off on you. Now that I remember, the first time I heard about that stat, I was pretty shocked as well. After all, isn't the world over populated? Isn't there a massive food shortage?

Of course not. A note on an additional side. Do you guys have any idea of how much good food is dumped into the seas every year by the United states? Enough to feed all and plus the starving people in the whole world. But Economics says, if you don't have the money to pay for it, we'll dump it in the sea and take the maximum profit.

The U.S. has storage of food for a few years. All of that farm product that is purchsed from farmers. And what isn't sold and is not put into the national reserve, it's dumped into the sea!!!!

I know I'm full of stats, but hey I'm no Rush!!!

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