Mets interested in Oswalt

Maybe two years ago Oswalt would have netted a Cliff Lee type of package. If you looked at the package the Phillies got for Lee, only Phillipe Aumont was considered a top 100 prospect. I think you need to come acquaint yourself with the word logic. If you read the whole conversation, my argument was that the Mets wouldn't trade their two best chips unless they were dumb because they aren't in any position to win a title. If they were loaded with guys like Ike Davis and Jenrry Mejia then the deal would make more sense even if they weren't contending for a title. If Oswalt pitches really well, he still wouldn't net what Cliff Lee did. Teams no longer make trades based on what a player did. Your examples of GMJ and Ollie Perez further prove my point. Why would the Mets be inclined to trade six years of two players for two years of someone is overpaid and now injury prone? I'm a life long Astros fan, but I don't let it get in the way of logical thinking. Please learn how baseball GMs run their teams now days. Prospects are so much more valuable than 10 years ago. I think I know plenty more about the schematics of baseball than you :grin:

 

If you want to get 3 or 4 prospects, they will be B and C prospects.

 

Oswalt has been a much better pitcher than Cliff Lee over his career. Lee basically had one great year whereas Oswalt has been consistently excellent until last season. He should net as much if not more than Lee if he stays healthy and continues to perform as he has in the past. Aumont was the only top 100 but they were all much younger than Ike Davis.

Just because the Mets system stinks and you think Ike Davis, a 23 year old 1st baseman BTW, and Mejia are fantastic doesn't mean they're going to do anything in the majors. That's why they're prospects, hell look at Saltalamacchia and all he's done after he got traded as a big shot prospect. The Mets are one of the biggest market teams in baseball. It's ridiculous for you to say they value prospects so much because they can control their salaries for three years. Is that why they've traded Lastings Milledge and Carlos Gomez and Deolis Guerra in the last few years? Three of the best prospects they've had recently. They just moved into a brand new ballpark and I'm sure Mets fans are aching to see the best and the brightest from the one of the worst farm systems in baseball being called up from Binghamton... yay. There's Jose Reyes, David Wright, and... who the hell is that guy? Furthermore, teams absolutely make trades based on what players have done. The Phillies just traded for Halladay because he has been one of the best pitchers in baseball not because they hoped he might one day turn it around and become a good pitcher. That's the first time I've heard the Halladay upside argument for that trade, very nice. Prospects hold more value for small market teams because they can control salaries for a while but teams like the Mets and Dodgers and Yankees can afford to trade Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson and not think twice about it.

I think your posts here are pretty arrogant and you'd do well to reign it in before you go and get that kind of reputation because it'll stick with you.

 

IMO the Mets have the prospects to acquire Roy Oswalt. It would be a steep price, but it could be done. There is probably no way that they would part with Jenrry Mejia or Pelfrey, but I'm sure Ike Davis, Niese, Holt and another prospect could be had. If the Mets are going to obtain the Astros' ace, then its going to take a lot to get him.

 

LOL I honestly don't care if you think I'm arrogant. Also, I don't care if you want to lower my rep. Thats not what I'm here for. Your logic in the Texieria deal is laughable. The Braves gave up: Salty, Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Beau Jones. If you think that in any prospect trade, the prospects you are getting are all going to be contributors, you are missing the point of the trade in the first place. Most of these deals go down because the team trading the superstar can't afford the player due to bad attendance or the player is about to be eligible for free agency. They don't make the deal because they want to. The team trading the superstar does it because they have to. The team with the prospects gets instant leverage knowing the team is having to trade the player. If you honestly think that the team trading an all star for prospects will get equal value, you are kidding yourself. If teams were signing and trading for guys mostly based on their previous performance, we would see more Andruw Jones and Barry Zito esque contracts floating around. Teams are sick of overpaying guys millions of dollars for them to just start playing mediocre after they sign the guaranteed deal. I'm telling you. Prospects are the new way of Major League Baseball, which in turn makes them more valuable. Have you ever heard of the Rays? They barely ever sign guys through free agency and never exceed 100 million in payroll. They compete in the toughest division in baseball. All teams want to be like the Rays. Compete with young cheap controllable players. So to think Roy Oswalt would net mulitple blue chip prospects or command more than Cliff freakin Lee in a trade is ignorant. Especially when Roy has said numerous times that he is retiring after his current deal. Thats the deal breaker. If this was 2007 and we were debating this, I would look like a jackass, but Roy Oswalt is no longer a legitimate ace on any staff.

 

The section in bold is laughable

I'm glad Ed Wade realizes that trading your Ace for a bunch of unproven and non #1 prospects is a bad idea.

Once again if Oswalt gets traded to a contender he's going to probably get you the top prospect in the organization and maybe more. I don't understand why you and others can't see that.

You are trading a certifed legitimate front line starting pitcher for one or more players who have potential but could turn out to nothing.

When the other team is getting a sure-fire great player the other team better be getting some very nice prospects.

 

We will see. I never said he would net nothing in return. I just said he wouldnt net multiple blue chip prospects or as much as everyone on here seems to think. Do you even know Roy said hes going to retire after the last two years of this contract? I know the northeastern media is biased but they aren't lying when they say Roy Oswalt will only net 1 good prospect not great and some other young talent. Houston or Ed Wade doesn't have any leverage in any deal for Roy Oswalt. You won't see many Texieria type deals any more. Roy Halliday was a special case because he is Doc Halliday. The wizard is no doctor.

 

With what you put in bold, I meant Roy Oswalt is no longer an ace on every staff out there. Hes an ace on about 15 teams. a 2 starter on others.

 

Oswalt never stated he was going to actually retire. He said he wasn't sure if he was going to keep on pitching and it also depended on whether or not he could maintain his level of play.

Saying you are going to do an early retirement is easy to do before you face the actual decision.

It willl also depend on the state of the Astros or what team he is on at that time in his career.

But we can't just assume he is going to retire after 2012. Oswalt seems like the guy who could just walk away but I doubt he will.

 

I'm not sure how many All Star quality players who are anything like Roy Oswalt have said they would retire after their deal is up at barely 30 years old (first time he made comments like this), but I'm guessing its not very many. Roy is his own kind of guy. He could care less about the Hall of Fame or playing until he can't anymore. He has also said theres life after baseball and he wants to be healthy after his career. The more injuries he gets, the more he is likely to hang them up, especially when we have a very dim immediate future in our system.

 

Johan Santana couldn't net an organization's top prospect. Oswalt is in decline. He's no Roy Halladay.

 

Thank you. Finally someone without the hometown bias. I love Roy Oswalt and the Astros (going to the game tomorrow) but its just unrealistic to think Roy is worth a jumble of good/great prospects.

 

Houston lost all leverage in any Oswalt deal when he came out and said he was open to retiring after his contract is up. We also keep losing the tiny amount of leverage after every game we lose and the more further along we move towards the end of his contract. If we can't find a legitimate offer then I would say to just hold onto him and put his number over there next to Biggio's and Bagwell's once he rides into the sunset.

 

Yeah but Pettitte was in the World Series with us five years ago and was definitely not retiring after his contract was up with us. The last 3 years maybe, but thats beside the point. Andy was playing to possibly make his career into a hall of fame one. Oswalt no so much. Roy has great numbers and could possibly end his career owning most of the Astro franchise pitching records, but he doesn't have the statistics or championships to be Hall of Fame worthy. Roy knows this and he doesn't see the point in trying, possibly failing and salvaging his body for the long term. The guy wants to run his awesome restaurant in Mississippi pain free and signing another deal when hes set for life is pointless. Thats why he retires and holds up his word. Maybe if Bobby Heck can find a bunch of gems through the draft and Ed Wade can sign a decent impact free agent, Roy will stay past those two years. Just a few points.

 

This just isn't true. The Yankees were only ever willing to give Phil Hughes, who was not the top prospect in the organization anymore at the time this trade was being discussed. The Red Sox waffled basically everytime the Twins asked for one of their top guys, preferring instead to offer a bunch of Tier 2 guys. Ultimately the Twins didn't get a single blue chip prospect back.

Now, the Yankees and Red Sox both were willing to offer a top prospect for Roy Halladay, but Halladay is at this point significantly better than Roy Oswalt.

 

The Yankees and Red Sox aren't where you go to trade Oswalt at the deadline. They expect to make the playoffs regularly and can always sign free agent pitchers to bolster their team. The reason the Twins focused on those types of teams is that they were trading pre-season, and the teams that were going to trade for him wanted to sign him to a longterm deal - that limits the potential partners to just a handful.

You go to teams who make the playoffs once a decade and get desperate when they are in contention midseason. Those are the ones that will give up a top prospect to help them make it the last 2-3 months and into the playoffs. That they get him for another full year (or can trade him away again) is just a bonus. This year, you could be looking at various teams in the NL and AL West and AL Central, most likely. Maybe even the NL East if that stays competitive. For example, take a look at the Washington Nationals - if they have a shot at the playoffs when June or July rolls around, they basically have to make a move to bolster their team because they've been terrible for so long and have to take their shot.