Media treatment of Lebron James and Yao Ming

Yeah, I don't think I can argue against the fact that Tom Tolbert looks kinda attractive on camera.

 

Spiral,

I know Newgirl was asking about media treatment and pre draft comparisons. I'm just saying that there were sufficient facts for people to reasonably believe that Yao would stink, and for people to believe that he would be greater than Bradley and Smits. Many media members said that Yao would stink like Bradley in part because of the physical similarity. I know and agree that Yao's lower body is much more solid than Bradley, and that his footwork is vastly superior. But it's not fair to say that people had no basis for having a negative view of Yao, and only did so because of his nationality. Personally, I think his nationality signifcantly impacted how people viewed the facts and evidence, and their ultimate conclusion. Ultimately, I think you and I agree that race impacted how people viewed things.

I just wanted to say that someone could reasonably believe that Yao would be a bust like Bradley, without racial bias. Someone like me. I believed and feared like heck that Yao would be a bust. Ask Deuce. He was giving me positive thoughts on Yao on a daily basis before and after the draft. And any racial bias, if any, would favor Yao, if you know what I mean.

I'm curious to know what you think would have happened if Yao had Lebron's frame and game. I think Yao would have drawn favorable comparisons because our ESPN society digs athleticism.

"Your cause?" Maybe I should have said your purpose in your posts. Your purpose is to raise the problems of stereotyping. A worthy cause that should be approached carefully, again, with precision. Yup, I'm a lawyer. And I do get angry about racial bs.

 

by the way, you talk. i can pretty much verify that you are definitely a lawyer. a relentlessly persistent one at that. lawyer's have that stubborn quality. they can make an innocent person look guilty and a guilty person look innocent.

i'm just interested. can i ask you a question? was oj really guilty?
can you prove bin laden was innocent and that it was all just a conspiracy?

sufficient facts for yao to be a bust? hmmm....... hmmmm......... after careful deliberation and consideration, HAHAHAHA!!!!!

you feared that yao would be a bust. you know what people say about fear. people fear what they don't understand.

as for the draft, i didn't even watch it. since my other team was losing and never picked anyone good in the draft and wasn't drafting number 1, i didn't bother to watch. what were some interesting draft day comments from analysts that day? i missed it.

as for yao, i didn't even bother to look at the news on him until i heard so many people talking $hit about him.

as for if yao had lebron's frame and game, i think he would have still had the same critics. first of all, even if he has the same frame and game, they would still judge him on his looks and say he's just a novelty and overrated because of his ethnicity and some other guys would say there is no way he's better than this other guy with similar game and then because he's chinese, they would wonder whether the guy could get along with his teammates or speak english well enough to communicate on the court, etc. etc. and even if he has the same frame and game, that doesn't change the fact that his race is stereotyped as not being "MENTALLY TOUGH". and as you should know, the only reason the nba recruited yao was because of his height. do you really think they would have bothered to look at him if he wasn't that tall? they thought to themselves, even if he sucks, he's at least tall enough to block some shots.

as for athleticism, ichiro on the mariners is one of the most athletic outfielders in the game, the guy is the fastest player in baseball and has probably the best throwing arm for a right fielder in the game and he was mvp and rookie of the year and he has a ton of highlight reel material, but he was doubted in the beginning simply because of his ethnic background. the guy was said to be nothing special. on all scouting reports they basically said he couldn't make it in the majors. that was one reason why the yankees didn't sign him and there were reports that yankees owner steinbrenner was pissed that his scouts gave him inaccurate reports.

going off the subject:
you know jerry west is really funny. that guy thought he had to get a panda express to get yao ming to consider coming to memphis. that was the funniest thing i ever heard. especially since the food panda express serves isn't even authentic chinese food. it's fast food american style. but the guy thought yao didn't give him a private work out because memphis didn't have a high chinese population or whatever or didn't have enough fake chinese restaurants for him to eat at. turns out yao later on said, he didn't want to play in a high chinese populated city since there would be even more pressure on him.

 

I think OJ is guilty. I think the jury got it wrong. I think that the top of law school students go to make the big bucks at big firms or work with bit name lawyers. I think that the bottom of the law school class are the ones that take the government jobs that don't pay squat, like being an assistant district attorney. I think the prosecutors were weak and stupid, made the case too complicated, allowed Cochran and crew to dictate the subjects of trial, and didn't relentlessly focus on simple fact that OJ had motive and opportunity. The prosecution allowed the jury to get distracted from the simple issues.

I can't prove bin laden was innocent. From what I have read, there is sufficient, if not overwhelming evidence that he is guilty. I don't understand your point.

I'm somewhat surprised that you think there is no way for a person to reasonably believe that Yao could be a bust. If it's completely unreasonable to believe that Yao could be a bust, you're saying that there's no way that Yao could be a bust.

I'm not sure what your point is about "fear". I like Yao and the Rox, so I "feared" for them and for the fans, that he might be a bust. That has nothign to do with understanding Yao. You have probably not had the benefit of my earlier posts dissecting Yao's game. If you had, then you would likely not suggest that I don't "understand" Yao. Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad. I just want to encourage people to be precise with words, and not use pretty sounding phrases where they don't apply.

Draft day comments were that Yao would take time to learn the nba game, and he might become pretty good (at best). Kenny Smith and Charles both labelled him a likely bust.

The assessment of Ichiro wasn't that he would stink. Most people just thought he would be average or above average. I think there was greater evidence of the likelihood of his success than there was of Yao's likelihood of success. I'm not sure how many people would have predicted that Ichiro would be the absolute stud that he is. I am not sure but I think people did give him credit for his excellent defense and arm. The question was whether his bat was quick enough for the power arms in MLB.

I think your story about Jerry West is a good example of how the western world doesn't really get asian culture.

 

i was joking, you know......

the above is a clear cut example of lawyer double talk. can you please explain your technique to the class? what's your secret? i find the above really really funny. i'm saying that it was r****ded for people to basically guarantee he was a bust as if it were fact instead of OPINION. i rest my case.

judge: upon careful deliberation and consideration, i dismiss this case based on unfair lawyer double talk and lack of substantial evidence for prosecution. just playing. is that how they say things in court?

you must not have read the scouting reports on the guy. they definitely didn't think he had that cannon for an arm. they later on discovered that, when he threw a guy out at third base from right field. the guy threw an absolute laser. they also thought that his batting average was a fluke. he became one of the few players to have over 200 hits in his first two seasons. he also had a better batting average in the US than he did in japan in that rookie season of his if i remember correctly. no one said he was going to be above average. most people thought he was overpaid and average to below average isn't going to satisfy no one.

anyway, case dismissed. court is no longer in session. i don't want to debate this corny topic over and over. its redundant.

 

spiral,

I suggest you don't mock Rileydog's profession, although I am no friend of lawyers myself. I have found out very early on that mocking people's profession without knowing a lot about it will only make you look pretty stupid. I hear people mock my profession too. They usually sound pretty stupid.

 

i'm not mocking his profession. i'm actually kind of curious about what they actually say in court. you know, just in case, i have to be there one day?

and please don't tell me about your profession. by the way, do you want fries with that?

 

<h2>People like you is real racist! we need keep you in check! </h>

 

spiral,

i enjoy a good discussion, so this is all in good fun. when we type words, it's tough to know when someone is kidding, so i misunderstood your question about bin laden. i thought you were genuinely curious.

I agree: nobody could guarantee whether yao would be good, bad or average.

If you're really curious, a judge has the discretion to throw out a case (when you're suing for money) based on this standard (which you're sorta heard from me): a case can be dismissed, and never sent to a jury, if no reasonable person could conclude you are right. It's a pretty high standard because the right to a jury is pretty sacred in the U.s.

By the way, there are too many lawyers, but never enough good ones.

 

The reason for the assumptions about Yao before the season was his being an unknown quanitity. It's similar to the way European players like Nowitzki were underestimated when they first entered the league until they proved themselves.

Yao being Asian has a bit to do with it, but not necessarily because it's a race issue. Look at how Asian players are being gradually accepted as having potential now that players like Ichiro and Nomo have proven their worth.

Lebron James, on the other hand, has had his high school games shown on pay-per-view and hyped for more than a year about being the next big thing. He's already a huge star and comparable to Magic and other players who were stars in high school and turned out to be stars in the NBA.

 

Exactly. If Darko Milicic were the first European player to be considered for a high lottery pick, you can bet that there would have been a lot of skepticism about him. But because European players have proven themselves in the NBA in the past years (which probably has led to more NBA scouts being aware of prospects from Europe), fewer people question Milicic being among the top two or three picks this year.

So, imo, race/nationality does play into the scheme but not in terms of "inherent'' talent or ability. It's just a question of familiarity.

 

Why Darko got more love? It's because of players like YAO. Also Gasol has been great in the NBA so far and Milicic is suppost to be better(I'm not so sure though). Plus Milicic is just that good, scouts have been watching him for some time now.

Back to Yao, sure I remember people saying he would be a 3 year project or bust, but I also remember people saying he would change the way the center postition is played.

 

Amare is an American?

 

this topic is getting really redundant. i'm going to explain one more time for the mentally impaired.

Darko Milicic=white, white=american in most people's minds. they don't ask whether he speaks english as many times as they did with yao.

the media definitely gave more respect to darko than they did yao. yao had to earn his respect. when was the last time, you read an american newspaper or tv talk show making fun of a white player the way they did to yao ming. the player on denver skita, was hyped up as being better than yao before the draft last year.

the media treats white athletes in a different way. they address all their concerns. when a french golfer was being dissed by people because france was against the war, espn covered it and said how those little frenchy jokes were prejudiced against them. whereas, on national tv against the dallas mavericks, a loud heckler was clearly making ethnic jokes about yao, but does espn do a special feature on it on their sportscenter show and warn against prejudice towards asians. HELL NO ! they also did a special feature on darko and said how the guy is not the stereotypical white boy and how you don't need to be from the ghetto to be tough or whatever. where was the feature for yao and how he isn't like the stereotypes? no where. because they don't give a $hit about asians. do you want to know what the real reason was they reported that whole thing about shaq being racist? they barely even reported it. but all they wrote in the articles were about how there is a double standard for white people and how if a white person told tiger woods that, he'd lose endorsement deals whereas a black person doesn't. the only reason they even reported it was because it said something about white people. they wouldn't have even reported it if it was just about asian discrimination. do white players like andrei kirilenko get called communist as many times as yao by some fans and media? no and andrei is from the former soviet union which was communist. double standard. by the way, don't mistake this for anger, i'm just correcting some people's bias.

 

whatever.

 

great comeback.