1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Media: Thank God W Isn’t President Anymore

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,703
    Likes Received:
    6,392
    Today is one of those days in which we are particularly grateful that George W. Bush is no longer the president of the United States.

    The news from Afghanistan is grim. With the latest round of deaths, we pass a milestone: 2,000 US combatants have died in what is now the longest war in American history. The milestone has been reached just as the surge in troops has come to an end without achieving the goals of pacifying the country or even launching peace talks with the Taliban. Our Afghan “allies” remain as corrupt and ineffectual as ever, with the added wrinkle that the most dangerous place in Afghanistan for US troops these days seems to be the neighborhood of US-armed and trained Afghan forces, who are shooting and blowing up their nominal allies faster than the Taliban can do it.

    This is all bad news and very disturbing, but there is a crumb of comfort to be had. Because these failures happened on President Obama’s watch, the mainstream press isn’t particularly interested in relentless, non-stop scrutiny of the unpleasant news. If George W. Bush were president now, and had ordered the surge and was responsible for the strategic decisions taken and not taken in Afghanistan over the last four years, the mainstream press would be rubbing our noses in his miserable failures and inexcusable blunders 24/7. The New York Times and the Washington Post would be treating us to pictures of every fallen soldier. The PBS Newshour would feature nightly post-mortems on “America’s failed strategies in the Afghan War” and every arm-chair strategist in America would be filling the op-ed pages with the brilliant 20/20 hindsight ideas that our pathetic, clueless, failed president was too dumb and too cocky to have had.

    There would be no end to the woes and the recriminations. There would be the most moving and eloquent examples of hand wringing in the New York Review of Books, elegantly demonstrating that the cretinous assumptions and moral failings that led Bush into his failed Afghan policy weren’t his alone, but reflected broader, deeper failings in America itself. One is almost sorry for the sake of the authors of these diatribes that Bush is gone; the failure of our Afghan strategy is so sweeping, so unavoidable, that it would be the best possible backdrop against which to paint a stirring portrait of a failed president misleading a flawed people. What works of polemical literature have been lost, what inspired jeremiads will never be penned, what scalding portraits of America’s inherent flaws will never see the light of day because W left the White House too soon.

    If only President Bush had uttered that fatuous nonsense about “wars of choice” and “wars of necessity” that President Obama used: how much fun the press could have had mocking his grotesque and pathetic efforts at “strategery.”

    As it is, however, we just get the bare bones of what’s happening in Afghanistan, with no long, rolling wallows in the failure, no painstaking, step by step analysis of just how a credulous and inexperienced president ordered the military to execute a strategy which it didn’t recommend and couldn’t make work. There will be no analysis of how someone like Vice President Biden has been wrong at every twist and turn of the wars of the last ten years — though if he were Vice President Cheney every single error he had ever made would be hurled in our faces night after night.

    While the Bush administration made its share of mistakes after 9/11, and many of them were serious, the press overdid the wallowing and recriminations back then, and we don’t want the Obama administration to get the same treatment now. In a perfect world, the press would have been less relentlessly focused on Bush’s destruction then and less determined to protect Obama now, but covering presidents in wartime is complicated.

    Failure should not be swept under the rug, but it should be put in context. Fighting a war is the supreme test of statesmanship because it is so unbelievably complicated and hard. There are domestic and global political issues to factor in. There are the politics of your enemy. There are the shifting realities of combat itself, as the enemy reacts to everything you do with a counter-strategy of his own. The implicit assumptions in the press that anything less than a flawless performance in war is prima facie evidence of bumbling incompetence merely reflects the cluelessness and arrogance of a pseudo-educated elite that thinks textbooks on theory and lessons in political correctness plus good SAT scores amount to a grounding in the real business of life.

    There may not be any real answers to America’s conundrums in Afghanistan. Between the politics of Pakistan, alliance politics in NATO, the realities of Central Asia, the divisions within Afghanistan itself and the nature of the Taliban, there may not be a shining path that leads us out of the muck into the sunny upland slopes of victorious peace. That isn’t the fault of either President Bush or President Obama and it doesn’t mean that a quick withdrawal is a better course. History is filled with nasty, sputtering conflicts that don’t have happy or quick endings. It is the way the world works, and struggling gamely with unpleasant realities has been what most world leaders have been doing pretty much since time began.

    Had both W and The One understood this better, they might have made wiser strategic choices in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The belief that complicated and tangled strategic problems have simple and elegant solutions is one of the most pervasive American assumptions about the world we live in. On the positive side, that belief leads us to work very hard and dream big—and more often than not, we accomplish great things even if we never quite achieve our visionary dreams for a democratic and prosperous world. But there are times when both presidents and their critics are trapped by these assumptions; presidents devise over-elaborate and finely-tuned plans that fail, and critics judge that failure against impossibly high standards. Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama, for example, all developed unrealistic plans for grand solutions to the Israel-Palestine problem, and were all judged harshly for their failures to achieve a solution that was never in the cards.

    And so, while we are glad this morning that we are being spared the kind of vitriolic hatred and relentless criticism that the press would be pouring on President Bush if he were in office at this critical time, we don’t want the press to do unto Obama that which it did unto Bush. For a period after 9/11 the press was too indulgent toward President Bush; then as the post invasion situation in Iraq went all pear-shaped, the press snapped back to its natural anti-Bush animus and made up for lost time by becoming unremittingly, destructively and undiscriminatingly hostile. There is a happy medium between clueless cheer leading and attempts to destroy: it is called responsible analysis, and we could use a lot more of it. A press that neither waves pom-poms nor throws stink bombs non-stop is an important component of healthy democratic society; there are plenty of excellent reporters out there who want to do exactly that. May their tribe prosper and their numbers increase.

    http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/10/01/thank-god-w-isnt-president-anymore/
     
  2. Raven

    Raven Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,984
    Likes Received:
    1,024
    It's a neocon war, and neocons are responsible for it, and the American people understand that, just like they understand how desperately neocons
    want a war with Iran, which is one of the reasons that Obama is going to be reelected.

    ;)
     
  3. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,700
    Likes Received:
    39,333
    Are you calling Obama a liar? Because he has said this is a righteous war.
     
  4. jocar

    jocar Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    614
  5. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,703
    Likes Received:
    6,392
    war with Iran is coming; obama's reelection would make it even likelier.
     
  6. QdoubleA

    QdoubleA Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    4,767
    Likes Received:
    256
    Then you better start saving up rations and beans and head to the shelter. After the nukes drop it will be up to you to repopulate the earth. You and gwayneco can walk the globe poking at liberal skeletons and saying "I told you so".
     
  7. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2000
    Messages:
    21,625
    Likes Received:
    6,257
    Obama is wrong for saying it. They were both stupid wars.
     
  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    42,760
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    i guess we should forget that this war effort was stalled by another war effort that served no purpose
     
  9. Steve_Francis_rules

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 1999
    Messages:
    8,467
    Likes Received:
    300
    It was stupid to go after the terrorists that were behind 9/11 and those protecting them?
     
  10. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    We're doomed
     
  11. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,504
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    See, I don't think you can "overdo" complaining about 4,000 dead GIs and half a trillion dollars based on deliberate lies and a UN cartoon Powerpoint; it's like freezing ice cream or scrubbing a toilet.
     
  12. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2000
    Messages:
    21,625
    Likes Received:
    6,257
    OBL was caught in Pakistan. Taliban/ Al Qaeda are still killing us troops. When we leave who knows what will happen.If the Russians couldn't control the afgans what made the US think it could. Sometimes you have to be smart about starting a conflict.
     
  13. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    32,470
    Likes Received:
    7,648
    We are fighting an ideology, not a country. The more we spend time over there to clear out terrorists, the more will flock to their cause. Sure, we completely ravished their numbers now, but when we eventually pull out they will repopulate and attack again in even greater numbers.

    It only takes a few dead fathers and family members, and a few people pointing at US soldiers and telling these orphaned kids, "There. Those are the people that came and killed your parents. America is evil, see?"

    The only counter to this is to accelerate the development and education of the people in that region. It is harder for corrupt politicians and religious figureheads to control the people when they are actually educated and able to think for themselves.
     
  14. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2000
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    36
    Mohammed Ata was well-educated. OBL came from a privileged background. Islamic terrorism is hardly limited to the poor.
     
  15. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,338
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    This is Obama's war now. Bush started it. Obama can end it. Nothing is different now than it was under Bush. It won't be different in Obama's second term and it won't be different in the next President's first term. There will always be the same advantages/disadvantages for leaving, except that there is a running tab which is being paid for by the public.

    It's never going to generate a return. You can stay there and forcefully keep your guys in power until education catches up and the more extreme older generation are killed/worn out. But that is costing 100% of you a lot of money, it is making 1% of the population a lot of money, and it will barely increase your personal safety if at all.

    Go home. Don't let another soldier die for this crap. Save the money. Fix your economy. Believe me, if your medical care, pensions or currency blows up, it will kill a lot more Americans than these terrorists are killing right now or have ever killed. This war is like the international trickle down war - the only significant benefit from it will be money transferred to people who can get big contracts and strike deals with illegitimately powerful Afghani mobsters, and that is less likely to trickle down to you than the money from your domestic trickle down economics. That money doesn't even pass through home, that money goes straight to the tax havens.

    Jeez, do you mean to tell me that you are more interested in putting, of all people, Karzai in power to spread democracy and freedom and education, than you are in addressing (for example) a lack of political alternatives at home, 3 decades long stagnant wages, massive state debts, high unemployment, declining R&D, financial/other market abuse, growing wealth disparity, etc.? Yes these are only the bad things, and there are tons of good things, but surely you realize that things are much worse than usual right now for almost all Americans?

    Weakened Americans is a danger to America, and it's a danger to lots of people around the world. You need to stop living OBL's dream of weakening your country by inflating military/defense spending, and start going back to the things that made you a prosperous, diverse, tolerant, strong, sustainable nation. You have the ability, the options and the freedom to get things done and with this you choose to either stay home or be embroiled in a party war between two parties who propose to continue the same strategy with minor tweaks?
     
    #15 Mathloom, Oct 3, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  16. bucket

    bucket Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,724
    Likes Received:
    60
    The thread title will soon be the consensus view of historians. Just saying.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now