Oh this gets even more fun.... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22756043/ WASHINGTON - Brian McNamee told congressional investigators he injected Roger Clemens’ wife with human growth hormone as she prepared for a Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition photo session five years ago, the New York Daily News reported Friday. McNamee testified during his Capitol Hill deposition on Thursday that he injected Debbie Clemens at her husband’s direction, the news said on its Web site, citing an unidentified Washington source. ...
no it's not... what if the needles and gauzes come up positive for rogers blood and steroid/hgh??? then what? go ahead and explain to me mcnamee's motivation for lying to the feds about roger when he's already been proven truthful with other player's being indicted admitting to use??? why didn't roger just come right out and tell mcnamee to say he [mcnamee] was lying on that phone call??? i'll tell you why, because roger's high-flying attorney's are orchestrating this entire thing just like oj's were.
Because there are at least three documented eyewitnesses. Call me a sheep all you like. One of us is believing everything he reads in the media, and it ain't me.
To him having sex, yes.....but not to rape. I am not calling you a sheep, just another guy interested in the truth, I presume.... DD
Sex with an unconscious woman. Holy crap DD, are you that desperate to defend your ex-cop? Do you want Clemens to hang that badly? He's an arrogant prick regardless of whether he roided up.
I don't hate him, just want the truth to come out, and I like the whole drama. She was unconscoius? Where does it say that? And that is still not necessarily rape, the FACT that he wasn't charged with it speaks more than anything, right? DD
You know what Da Da...I have to chime in here. There are THOUSANDS of women who don't press charges after being raped. Many don't press charges because they are ashamed. Many don't want to have to relive it through the courts. That is very shallow of you to say just because she didn't press charges that it didn't happen. Putting GHB(Date rape drug) into women to make them unconscious...IS RAPE! I have women friends that had this happen to them and they never reported or press charges for the reasons I said. It's really embarrasing. For you to say that is really insensitive to not only the girl that got raped by McNamee...but to all the women who gets raped EVERY DAY!
Huh? WTF are you talking about? I said, he was not charged with rape, and for people to just call him a rapist is a bit much. Where did we discuss the reasons for the lack of charges, I certainly don't know them, just that the police investigated and no charges were filed. On the flip side of your argument, I know some girls that take GHB on purpose for a good time or to party....maybe that is what happened here, I dont' know...do you? Now, I am not saying that this woman was NOT raped, but the FACTS are that he was not charged with it. But Clemens side is trying to discredit him and basically calling him a rapist to make him look bad.....maybe he did rape the girl.....maybe not....but if he did rape her, then why would Roger take him back as his personal trainer? I would never stand up for a rapist.....EVER...... DD
Question: although we can potentially see the Mitchell investigation not asking for evidence, since it's really just a compilation of personal testimony on the subject of steroids in baseball, but how is it that federal prosecutors putting McNamee under the threat of indictment and giving immunity never asked for it? Is it just me or does that lend a whole lot of credibility to those who say this has been a witch hunt from the beginning to get some big names involved?
You are right..we don't know what happened with the girl and the fact is that charges were not pressed. To call him a rapist without all the facts isn't right. Innocent until proven guilty. But it seems to me you are standing up more for McNamee than the Girl just because she didn't press charges. That's all I'm saying. Lots of girls don't press charges everyday or report that it happened.
It's interesting that plenty of people on this bbs are saying it is ok to say Clemens is guilty and that it's ok to conclude so rather than assume 'innocent until proven guilty.' Then those same people say we should give McNamee the benefit of the doubt in his RAPE case, and should consider him innocent until proven guilty. Puh-lease. Also, keep in mind that OJ WAS found to be responsible for murder in civil court. While the evidence standard is lower in civil than criminal trials, it nonetheless is a ruling based on evidence determining he is a murderer.
The difference is that one has gone through the legal process and no charges were filed, while the other one is just starting to come to light. I don't KNOW if Roger did steroids, but I suspect based on everything that is out there, that he did. All I want is the truth..... If he did it, admit it and move on......I mean if you read the SI article I posted, McNamee even says that Clemens didn't do it that much, only in July and August and only for like a 6 week stretch at a time.....he was hardly the WORST offender by any stretch. Link to Sports Illustrated artcle with McNamee as they watched the Clemens 60 minutes interview. And if Clemens came out and said yes, he did it.....like Andy Pettite, I would say fine....everyone was doing it, how can you convict just one guy. But the fact that he is so vehemetly denying it.....reminds me of the Barry Bonds and Marion Jones cases....... And THAT is what is keeping me interested. DD
You're assuming that people will still argue the same if it turns out McNamee's evidence is legit. Right now, we have no idea regarding the legitimacy of the evidence he turned over to investigators. We're merely questioning his timing.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-clemens-lawsuit&prov=ap&type=lgns St. Petersburg police records: Clemens' ex-trainer lied during 2001 rape case By ANTHONY McCARTNEY, Associated Press Writer January 8, 2008 ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) -- Detectives believed the former New York Yankees trainer who says he injected Roger Clemens with steroids lied to them during the 2001 investigation of a possible rape, according to documents released Tuesday by police. Police said Brian McNamee denied having sex with a possibly drugged woman in a hotel pool, even though security guards and other witnesses said they saw him. McNamee hired a New York attorney, who called detectives to arrange an interview. "I explained to him that his client did talk with me once, and he lied to me," St. Petersburg Police Detective Donald Crotty wrote in a report. The state attorney's office, however, decided not to press charges. Clemens cited the incident as an example of McNamee's dishonesty in a defamation lawsuit filed Sunday in Texas. The seven-time Cy Young Award winner says his former personal trainer lied to baseball investigator George Mitchell to avoid prosecution when he said he injected Clemens at least 16 times with steroids and human growth hormone in 1998, 2000 and 2001. Clemens acknowledged receiving injections from McNamee but said they were vitamin B-12 and the painkiller lidocaine. "The significant thing is, when this guy's rear end is in trouble, does he lie?" said Rusty Hardin, Clemens' attorney. The defamation suit states: "McNamee's explanation was totally at odds with the conclusions of the police officers conducting the official investigation in St. Petersburg." Earl Ward, one of McNamee's attorney, denied the St. Petersburg incident had any bearing on his client's credibility. He said McNamee's statement about Clemens was found credible by the staff of former Senate majority leader Mitchell and federal law enforcement officials investigating steroid use in professional sports. "The bottom line is that allegation in Florida was investigated, and it went nowhere," Ward said. "It's just an attempt to further damage his character," he said. "It has no relevance." The records released Tuesday by the St. Petersburg police show McNamee was suspected of raping a woman he had met at the Renaissance Vinoy Resort in October 2001. The Yankees were in town to close out the regular season against the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, and many players and support staff were staying at the upscale resort. McNamee was having sex with the woman in the resort's pool and didn't stop when confronted by security, the documents say. Police were notified. When they arrived, they found McNamee had helped the woman out of the pool and get dressed, according to the documents. Groggy and incoherent, she was taken to the hospital, where the documents said she was found to have GHB, the "date-rape drug," in her system. The woman told detectives she could not remember details of the encounter in the pool. She said she did not give McNamee permission to have sex with her, and witnesses told detectives they had heard her saying "no" during the encounter, according to the documents. Detectives later recovered some of her jewelry, an empty beer can and a water bottle containing GHB at the side of the pool. Police interviewed McNamee hours later, according to the documents, and he denied having sex with the woman or knowing Yankees batting practice pitcher, Charles Wonsowicz, who was also in the pool. McNamee refused to submit a saliva sample for DNA analysis, the documents said. Although the state attorney's office decided not to press charges, the accusations ended McNamee's career with the Yankees. The Yankees did not give a specific reason for terminating McNamee. Clemens then hired McNamee as his personal trainer. According to the pitcher's lawsuit, McNamee told him that his actions were "actually a life-saving attempt." I'm thinkin the only reasons charges weren't filed were because he denied the allegations and the woman wasn't conscious at the time. Otherwise, that's some pretty damning evidence. And for a former police officer, doesn't seem too smart to not just deny the rape but to deny even having sex with her even though a number of witnesses saw you...and then to deny knowing a member of your own organization that was in the same pool. And of course he denied submitting a saliva sample, which, at this point, Clemens is willing to do. Yet, McNamee is not considered a rapist...but Clemens, in the presence of far, far less evidence, is considered a cheat and a liar.
A fair enough point. To me it is clear that McNamee still wanted to be "in with Roger" from that phone call, but now all gloves are off. I mean calling out Roger's wife....ouch. DD
Failing to be indicted is not the same as not being guilty. All those people who have been wrongly convicted and had their cases overturned recently vehemently denied thier guilt, just as many of those who are guilty proclaim their innocence. It's pretty screwed up when vehemently denying your guilt is considered proof of your guilt. DD, what is your take on my earlier question about why McNamee didn't turn over this evidence when FEDERAL PROSECUTORS were threatening him with jail? Surely you aren't contending it was because he 'still wanted to be in with Roger' as McNamee's lawyers are spinning it. That's ridiculous and also one could also reasonably surmise is withholding evidence. Yet he isn't getting clobbered by those feds, is he?
There is always another side to every story, but it sure sounds like he raped her. Assuming that he did rape her then why would Roger hire a rapist to be his trainer? And the rape issue has absolutly zero to do with whether or not Roger was injected with HGH and steroids..... Not proof at all, but it sure makes it more interesting........ DD
