I still have a hard time believing that Micheal Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Shaq, Lebron or Kobe goes 12 years without a single playoff series win if they took Tmac's place on the teams he played on. Iverson and Lebron both took teams with low talent to the finals... Tmac has had some great playoff games, he usually plays at a high all star level when healthy, but I just question calling him a "superstar". Isn't winning what defines a superstar, not just stats and high lights? Especially 12 years into a player's career? For the Rocket's sake I hope he does come back better than he has been in years with no injuries and proves all the doubters including me wrong. I will be cheering him if he does as it can only be a good thing for the Rockets... I would definitely be pleasantly surprised. It's hard to believe anything Tmac says as far as his progress goes, which is the biggest problem with Tmac sharing his expectations before the season starts.
Your point requires some sort of previous claim that TMac is as good as those hall-of-fame players you mentioned.
You have to remember that Grover BACKED up his statements... I would trust Grover the MOST out of any trainer....
the thing is, you don't need to be those guys to win a playoff series. ask kg. ask carmelo. ask joe johnson.
Tmac points of emphasis 1. He tried and gave us some exciting moments. The Dallas series when he dunked on Shawn Bradley. I thought for sure we we're over the hump. 2. When he started breaking down, it appears that he didn't put the type of effort into rehabbing that we've come to expect. 3. Tmac is different than the other big names stars not to win titles. Barkley, K Malone, Stockton, etc... 4. Talks way too much once he started getting injured. After 2 weeks away, I'm now back. That doesn't work, then I'm out for the rest of the year. Now, I'll be back to Elite Status this year. ... Highly doubtful, Stoudemire is 7 years younger and it took him 2 years to get right. 5. He is simply not a leader and that is difficult when you have the most talent on the team. I check his leadership against Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Lebron, Dewade, Roy, etc... He appears lost when it plan A doesn't work. 6. Botttom line, his time in Htown has come and gone.... Just as it does for every great player. Even Dream wore some gaudy other uniform.
they had a supporting cast and tmac didnt...... not to mention all the injuries... carmelo had chauncey, joe johnson had lyk a ****load of support. oh and rafer alston doesnt count as a supporting player
I'm hardly a T-Mac supporter, but Carmelo and Joe had quite a bit of support this playoff series. I would compare it more to Wade, who is obviously far superior to Carmelo and Joe, but hasn't won jack since Shaq left due to injuries and a supporting cast that makes the 04-05 Rockets look awesome.
when tmac returns 2 elite status...u'd be all eating your words and chanting his name. I havent been able to remember a single player on your OWN team that has been criticised and hated on so much by the team's OWN fans. Its like he became wat Vince Carter was to Raptor fans the way our very own ROckets fans have been hating on him. What great wrong has he done to the team? If you wanna blame someone for the team's shortcomings, blame those that are actually at fault. E.g. cough cough* Rafer Alston...Luther Head..Shane Battier.......... I have not seen another player having been brought down to tears by his team's defeat.................................................. If you still can't bare having Tmac on the team, well, you only have another season of T. McGrady on the Rockets roster list.
I think TMac will return to "really good" status. If he does, I hope we don't trade him for anything less that fair value. Personally, and going against popular opinion, I'd rather keep him if he can produce....but I sure as hell hope we dont' give him up for "role players".
No, my point was that some fans portray Tmac's career as if no player in the world could have won with the teams he had. So I listed a few players who I am almost certain would have won a series after 12 years in his situation. I am sure there are other superstars who could be added to that list. We are talking about just winning a single series in 12 years after all, not a ring. If we assume that those hall of famer would indeed have won a series, then what makes Tmac a superstar, rather than just an all star? I think Tmac had superstar talent when he was leading the league in scoring and there were still debates as to if he was better than Kobe. But superstars are typically taking heat for not having won a ring by their 12th year, not looking for their first playoff series win. Superstars are typically future hall of famers. In fact I can't think of another NBA "superstar" who hasn't won a playoff series in 12 years, and if you can think of one, chances are I don't consider that player a superstar either. That doesn't make Tmac a bad player, it makes him a perrenial all star, who hasn't been able to win in the playoffs as the best player on his team.
I would like to add one thing to your list. Joe Johnson is also in the East which makes advancing a lot more easier than in the West.
When you should have stopped here: And then you have the gall to call Yao a "Vag" ....are you kidding me? The guy is big, slow, cumbersome and prone to silly touch fouls, but he works harder than your favorite player ever did....one thing you never hear about Yao is him tossing his teamates, or the organization under the bus. Nor his work ethic questioned. And you talk about credibility, what a joke. DD
he definitely needs to prove his self again. he's my favorite player in the league right now. hopefully he returns to his Orlando Magic days...
Well spoken. That is what I thought. At least have him play a good season and you know he is fun to watch. Me too I will stick to optimism and since his services to Darfur I hope he will mature and greatly humble himself. Changing his number and giving up on Nr.1 his trademark is a hopeful sign.
You really need to work on your reading comprehension. My exact words were: In case you somehow aren't a native speaker, that's what we call a figure of speech. LOL, and it gets better because even delving past that, you somehow arrived at the conclusion that a call to pull something out of said body part is an insinuation that person X is said body part. Hey! Ron needs to stop shooting jumpers off one leg! Omg, did I just call Ron Artest a 'leg'?!? I also fail to see what point you're exactly attempting to make in juxtaposing my comment against Yao's work ethic and prudence in dialogue ( ). Since you clearly missed it, my point was that at one time, Tracy was my favorite player, but I've grown apathetic towards him due to his tendency to engage in rhetorical flourishes. To spell it out for you since you are having a bit of trouble here, I said myself I have grown tired of Tracy for the very same reason you are trying to contrast him against Yao. As far as Yao "working harder than [Tracy] ever did", I fail to see 1) how you arrived at this conclusion and 2) the relevance to this entire topic. You're right Dakota, based on his poor effort last year, we can conclude that Tracy isn't a hard worker - he was born with the ability to shoot fadeaway jumpers from the high post, that didn't take practice. The only reason Yao was mentioned in this current discussion was in disputing your revisionist claims regarding Tracy's playoff contributions and the amount of help which he had in those respective series'. If you want to discuss Yao's work ethic, please feel free to start a thread on that topic and I will be more than happy to engage you. Until then, stop attempting to shift the scope of this discussion. Oh, and thanks for addressing my points. TC.
We have gone round and round, I don't agree with your points. You don't agree with mine. I say, let others create, you say...they can't. So, what is the point of arguing it? as for shifting the discussion - hello Pot, I am Kettle. And you are calling Yao a puss, whether you try to hide behind some figure of speech or not.....I mean...panties and Vag? DD
