The premise here is the quality of human Kobe is. I do not put him in the OJ or Ray Lewis category, or the Rodman, forget the silly Hitler reference, I think Kobe used poor judgement in Colorado, sure, but is he a rapist? I am thoroughly unconvinced that he is anything other than an 'entitled' athlete having had sex with a woman. I understand I may be wrong, and if I am I hope he gets the book thrown at him. Because rape is wrong, so very wrong. I suspect he was with the wrong woman, in more ways than one. So, if Kobe is no more guilty than cheating on his wife, a unique proposition right?, then heck, yes, I could get behind Kobe the Rocket. But if Kobe is guilty then heck, yes, toss the book at him. (BTW - I was also disgusted with the way the Astros summarily dismissed Lugo last year. I believed they were more responsibl;e to their players than that. He was entitled to due process but was unduly dealt with by his organization.)
This is off-topic, Wiz, so I am putting this in a different post. If you think Clinton was a great speaker, then you are young and a Democrat. So, I must point you in the direction of great Democratic orators -- Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy and Hubert Humphrey. I'd never allow Clinton on my debate team (same rationale as the Hitler omission) but I would grab either or both FDR and JFK. Do some research. Clinton was a talker -- those to whom I alluded were orators.
Indeed, I do put him in the OJ - Ray Lewis category. Bare Bryant is a social misfit with "poor judgment in Colorado" -- and any other place where people breathe air. "Is he a rapist?" -- a judge and jury will decide, not us. I used the Hitler analogy because it takes us out of the sports field where your vision might be clearer. My point is: "Do you want to associate with someone who is anathema to the values you hold dear?" My personal answer is "NO!"
If Kobe is guilty as charged he is still not in the same analygous situation as Hitler. If Kobe is not guilty as charged then I would prefer him to 'sheed or Artest as regards their personal troubles and demons. What about MJ's (reputed) gambling forays and soirees after play off games, whitewashed and swept under the rug? Better than rape but worse than the rest IMO.
I give up. Sleep on it tonight. Re-read our exchanges tomorrow and perhaps you will be able to see the analogy -- not a direct comparison. Bare Bryant's innocence or guilt has little to do with my assessment -- that he is an arrogant blow-hard who is a cancer to any franchise with which he is associated. A guilty verdict will only reinforce my opinion. BTW, O.J. was not convicted, but the cloud encapsulates him, so much so that now he is thought of in terms of the guy who got off and not nearly so much as one of the NFL's greatest running backs. The same holds true for Rodman. People now remember him as a buffoon rather than a world-class rebounder. I pray the same unhappy historical opinion does not await Calvin Murphy, whose situation genuinely grieves me because he was the type of player that makes teams into "teams."
LOL. This statement is one of the funniest one I've seen here in quite a while. I am with thumbs on this. There are some players who I cannot cheer for. Pippen and Malone are the most obvious. Kobe and Shaq are there too. The Pippen year was extremely difficult for me as a Rockets fan. Fortunately, it ended fairly quickly. I don't want another player on my team who I can't possibly root for.
Thanks, Easy. Scottie Pippen is a great example of the type of divisiveness Bare Bryant would bring to this team. Now let's get back to praying for McGrady.
What argument? About Calvin? That's not about anything except that I hope he is innocent and, if so, the charges don't haunt him. As usual, Gunn, you make no sense.
Agreed, if the context involved politics or racism or any of the types of issues one finds in the D&D. But change the reference to Dracula if you prefer.
Your argument on the previous page that ridiculously referenced Kobe Bryant and Hitler in the same sentence; and your reasoning behind it.
Ahhh, now we can debate. This isn't about Calvin Murphy but your worship of Bare Bryant. It's okay to hold him in "awe," as Xiki said he does. But it should be equally okay for me to have an exact opposite viewpoint. Now, in deference to Pasox2, we are exchanging the Hitler reference to a Dracula reference. So let's look at the analogy, which is what seems to trouble you. Think of it like this: Apples are LIKE oranges because...." This does not say an apple is an orange, i.e. Bare Bryant is not Dracula. I am not saying Dracula did not or will not leave his mark on history. I'm saying I don't want him on my team because he will ultimately bite me on the....cheek. It is the nature of his beast. As I explained in my diatribe, I could take no pride in a championship with a player like Bare Bryant, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen or Dennis Rodman etc. etc. on my team. You may, and that is your right. I would not, and that is my right. Can we get back to our McGrady lust now?
No thumbs. This is just a blanket statement and your latest ramblings are still not holding any weight. Why? Because you are clearly disproportionate with your statements in that you are in favor of some, who you have an unassociated affiliation to, and reference others, in which no affiliation, as "social misfits". Where I found you the most one-sided is in you statements that that championships containing players such as Bryant and Rodman and possibly Malone, are considered "hollow" championships. They are only "hollow" in your eyes, because for some reason, you do not like these people beyond the court; which, in my mind is judgemental considering you probably do not know these people on a personal level. The only thing to me that seems "hollow" is your statements.
thumbs, I think you get yourself into trouble trying to defend your feeling. Feeling doesn't need defending. It's like defending the fact that you like orange more than apple. Some people just can't root for certain players, no matter what. Some people can root for any player as long as he helps the Rockets win. End of story. Nobody needs to defend anything.
Ok, now what. Orlando gets the 1st pick in the 2004 draft, which they will probably use on Okafor. Will McGrady stay now?
