Can we please drop the discussion on abortion. If you all want to continue, how about starting a thread on the subject. This thread has been totally derailed.
I'm not going to get into the abortion debate since my thoughts on it are searchable here and I'd just be repeating myself. Suffice to say, I totally see both sides and I don't understand either side demonizing the other. This is not an easy issue and there are not easy answers, regardless of the zealots on either side. What I DO want to know: Why do most "pro-lifers" oppose EVERY POSSIBLE METHOD OF AVOIDING UNWANTED PREGNANCIES? If you are against abortions, why be against condoms? Why be against sex education? Both condoms and sex education have done more to reduce unwanted pregnancies (and, thus, abortions) than abstinence only programs and both are opposed by most pro-lifers. Are you guys insane? It's like telling priests that sex and masturbation are sinful, like their godliness is going to keep them from ever expressing their sexuality. Then you make them crazy and then they **** kids. LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD, PLEASE. People have sex EVEN when they don't want kids. If you REALLY want to reduce abortions, give everybody sex ed and a condom. If you oppose that and say you're pro-life you are full of *****. p.s. Abortions were down under Clinton. They're back up under Bush. That is not a coincidence.
How is this off-topic? Sarah Palin is on the freakiest side of pro-life America. That's pretty much the main reason she was picked. Talking about abortion couldn't be more on topic.
But we aren't discussing anything about her and her idea on abortion just the topic of abortion in general.
That's a hell of a tightwire. Of course we're going to discuss abortion in general! She is a freaky abortion fundie! If we had a thread about McCain and his freaked out ideas about Iraq, would it be okay to talk about OUR ideas about Iraq there or would we need to start a new thread for that? I'd be perfectly happy to have a pure abortion thread. It's always a juicy argument and it's one of the rare ones where I mostly agree with both sides, but saying it's off topic here is stupid. Palin=fundie pro-life. This is a perfect place to talk about abortion.
Debate all you want but pro choice/right to life isn't an Executive issue, it's a judicial one. The President can only influence this issue through his appointment of Supreme Court judges and that is a somewhat rare opportunity and it involves a whole lot more complex politics than just one hot button issue. And even if a president did make a concerted effort to influence the issue, the law is developed through precedents over time. Radical departures from established law are not likely in the most activist court. But I'm with Batman, with the deep, genuine passion that people approach the abortion issue, it would seem to me that there should be an accompanying outcry for ubiquitous birth control. It's summer, people aren't going to be abstinent. Better a million free rubbers handed out at the Jr. High than one aborted child.
BS. The very selection of Palin DEMANDS a contentious debate on abortion. It belongs in this thread and we should have it. Why do fundie pro-lifers oppose the methods that best prevent abortions? Why are they against condoms? And masturbation. And sex that doesn't lead to children. Is masturbating the murder of a child? Is sex with a condom? Is every instance of spilled seed murder? I really want this Landry guy to answer these questions. And they are UTTERLY relevant questions in a thread about our new fundie VP candidate.
That's the thing, this isn't a thread about her and her 'freaky' ideas about abortion, it's about McCain's pick of her as VP. Yes abortion is relevant but damn can we move on to another subject now? The past 4-5 pages have been about the subject with no real connection or mention of her at all. We've discussed it, both sides have been presented, time for something new.
Jones, if you've read my posts I'm really on both sides as well but I just think its going on and on and nothing new is being discussed.
That makes about as much sense as closing down a thread called "Dan Quayle Picked" by saying it was derailed by too many posts about stupidity. What else would you like to talk about here? How unready she is to be president? How her 'terminal' degree was a BA in Journalism? How she hasn't ever had occasion to ever think about foreign policy or even other countries? Go for it. Nothing's stopping you. But nobody should EVER, in a thread about Sarah Palin, say that the question of abortion is "off-topic." Sarah Palin is THE NUMBER ONE FREAKIEST PRO-LIFE candidate ever on a major ticket. How could abortion be off-topic?
I didn't read all five pages. Did anybody cover the issue of avoiding unwanted pregnancies? I'm sorry if I'm repeating it but I'd really like to hear from The Landlord as to why the party of "pro-life" is so dead set against avoiding unwanted pregnancies. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation can infect every single thread. We need to take advantage of every single thread on every single board to let people know the Democratic Party is better at reducing abortions in this country, because nobody seems to understand that.
OK, whatever you win. Sheesh. I try to say I understand where you're coming from and even have the same ideas on the subject but f--- it.
Nobody has actually brought up means of avoiding unwanted pregnancies (maybe 1 post ) so thanks for bringing something refreshing in the discussion. Then again, I posted my 'new thread' statement before you brought in the new flavor. I really think we're on the same side here so I apologize for the previous post and the rolleyes.
We're cool, Pun. Sorry if I pissed you off. I personally like a thread on abortion because it's an indisputably (IMO) grey area and those are rare. And because I don't cede the issue of reducing abortions to the right. Because Democrats are better at it than Republicans and pro-choiceers are better at it than pro-lifers. There are less abortions under Dems and pro-choice law than there would be under the GOP and pro-life laws. Fact. Let's debate the hell out of that if the pro-life contingent wants to. Also, as already stated, I think Palin=abortion, so saying abortion is off topic in a thread about her is like saying talking about lying is off topic in a Bush thread. But I'm sorry if I pissed you off. We're cool.
If she were really against abortion she would be for socialized programs to support unwed mothers and to promote adoption. The National Child Care and Adoption Agency .... prenatal care for all.
Well she IS against abortion. In all cases, including rape and incest. But a lot of people are like that and still oppose the programs you mentioned. I call them hypocrites, others just call them good Republicans. After all, opposing abortion in all circumstances and then also opposing all social assistance programs is directly in line with the Republican platform. I don't know where Palin falls on the programs you mentioned. Maybe someone could research that.
Here is a little something I found with a quick Yahoo! search. http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/may/23/palin-vetoes-millions-state-budget/
