I'm pro-life all the way but how can you not empathize with a raped women in this instance? Brutally attacked, violated, permanently scarred emotionally, impregnated with a child you didn't want and now you're expected to carry it? That's the only instance where I cave in to the pro-choice side of the argument. That or if the pregnancy jeopardizes the life of the mother. I know as a Catholic, it's basically black or white but those are my beliefs.
The experience thing to be fair was used by everyone against Obama, even his running mate Biden and new supporter Hillary. I totally disagree it is off the table as you stated, however saying that I do believe it has lost some of its effectiveness. Once again, I strongly believe the requirements for someone running as President are different then those running for VP.
If you add incestuous relationships in there then I would agree. Personally, I am against abortion, except in cases of rape and incest, but at the same time it's not a big issue at all for me.
At least she's ethically consistent - the tried and true rape and incest exception is a moral dodge. The "baby" is innocent even in cases of rape or incest, why make them pay for for the mode of conception? Should a three year old not have rights if it is a product of rape? If a three week old fetus is just as viable as a three year old child, why should there be any difference? If you're anti-choice, and believe that a three week fetus is entitled to human rights, the willingness of the mother to conceive should be totally irrelevant to those rights. If you're anti-choice, your argument in principle is absolutely black and white. I respect Palin for having the nuts to take heat for disincluding that politically-convenient but morally inconsistent exception.
I give McCain credit for being bold. Kay Bailey or Mitt would have given the GOP almost no chance (KBH would have been one of the worst possible choices. She is shrill personally, and a mainstream conservative republican from Bush's home state no less). This choice mixes it up, still a Hail Mary, but better than calling a 5 yard play when you need 50 yards in 5 seconds. I think Lieberman or say Snow or Collins (moderate Republican women) would have been better. And again I don't see why Huckabee didn't get more play (social conservative and populist bent--while also being likable and funny). But Palin mixes it up. And the Dems (particularly Biden in their debates) have to be careful in their criticism of her less they make her a sympathetic figure being bullied (that lead to a Hillary resergence). But luckily they should be able to stick to ideological and policy differences, not need to personally embarrass her. One final thing. People talk about Obama's "lack of executive experience" (to me this means decision making and organizational skills). Last I checked he organized the largest campaign in political history (secured over 18 mil votes and performing phenomenally in caucuses where organization is key) and managed to eek out a defeat of the next strongest presidential candidate (an overwhelming favorite) from either party in over a decade. To pull that off shows tremendous discipline, decision making and organizational capability. That is a much more complicated thing to pull off (and surviving national media digging for everything on a front-runner) than winning a fractured small state's governors race (or for McCain securing enough delegates in a fractured GOP). Obama's campaign is his best testament, and a fine one, to his executive potential. I don't see anything in McCain, Palin or Biden's resume comparable.
A woman not wanting to raise a child with the genes of her rapist is a moral dodge ? Your stance on this issue disincludes logic.
Why? If anything at times Presidents are little more than figureheads (GWB, 2nd term Reagan) with VPs handling more executive decisions. Besides, the VP at any moment becomes the President--one can't assume Palin would have 2-3-4 years before potentially taking over. It could be 1 month, or 1 week. Except this doesn't consider the rights and risks of the mother. Even regular and apparently healthy pregnancies carries risk to the mother despite all the advances in modern OB medicine (and higher fatality rates than early term abortions). I'll make the analogy. Say you have a kidney that will save your brother if transplanted, he dies otherwise. You will have risks with this, but most likely will do fine with one kidney and with the surgery. Should the law force you to do the surgery? What if it was your deadbeat dad who never gave you or your mother anything material, or otherwise, but showed up one day in this situation.
let me tell you a lil story, perhaps you can grasp my point of view. in 1955, in a very, very small town in Ohio, a 15 year old Catholic school girl was walking home from school one day, she spotted a few of her friends at the city park and stopped by to hangout for awhile. An older boy (probably 21-22 ish) approached the young girl and asked if she would like to see a movie later. The girl thought the young man was polite and decided to ask her parents if she may go with the young man. After meeting the boy, her parents approved of the date. Maybe not he best decision by her parents, but this is 1955 small town Ohio, things were different then, people still trusted each other. The girl never made it to the movie theater, instead she was raped and left on the side of the road. The young man who raped here was never seen by here after that day. Now, again, remember that this is 1955. Girls didn't talk about this stuff back then, too much shame is placed on the girl by the general public and usually considered a 'w****' or 'tramp' if she comes out and claims rape. That young girl became pregnant from the vicious attack. Not only was abortion NOT an option because of her religous beliefs and upbringing, abortions weren't even available back then. Adoption was really the only other option. Rather than live with the guilt of just giving up on a child that wasn't wanted, she decided to face any ridicule from her family, friends and commuity that would look down upon her for having a child out of wedlock, and so young. 2 years later she met a man who had just moved to America from Germany. That man, took on the responsibility of the child(born from the rape) and adopted the little boy, and after marrying the woman, they had 3 other children and have now been married for more than 50 years. The child that was the result of the rape, grew up as a well mannered and disciplined boy. He graduated high school and got a job with Ford where he has worked for nearly 30 years. He also had 5 kids of his own. I am one of his children. You see, my grandmother put her own selfish needs and wants aside for the sake of my father. Sure it's a massive inconvience, but my grandmother, having basic human compassion, gave my father a chance at life, regardless of how he was concieved. My father wasn't the same brutal monster his biological father was.....in fact my father and I are very close, just as I am with my kids. Thats the tragedy with abortion, it's not just the child that is murdered in the womb who suffers. had my grandmother decided.....'wow, I'm pregnant, I really didn't want this to happen, I'm supposed to go to college, I was going to marry a doctor and live in a big house, me, me, me. screw this child I don't want it, I'll just dispose of it" well, myself nor my kids would never be here, and for that I am eternally grateful. I'll never forget the day my grandmother told me this story. when you hear a woman tell you the ridicule she suffered, the embarrassment, the pain, anguish, fear........and she still found the couarge to give my father the greatest gift, a chance to live... well, I will never support any sort of abortion, not under any special circumstance, no special stipulations or amendments, no way no how.
Your grandmother made a choice. Someone else may not be as strong and can make that same choice. It isn't your responsibility, nor our governments, to force someone to make that choice for someone else.
i watched palin give an a-palin speech and mccain stutter through his speech. i will say i am disappointed if obama is not sweeping this election. mccain is weekest candidate since dole and the palin lady is a soccer mom not translated well on tv screen and iam sure repubs will backlash against mccain for this obama will KILL mccain in election after palin vp pick u can book it
Great story. It really was, but your Grandmother made that choice. A different woman (in today's time), could choose to abort that baby. It's her choice. The government should not regulate what a woman shall do with her body. I personally believe that after a certain time, a baby should not be aborted though.
so if I have a mentally r****ded child, I should have the option to legally dispose of it's life, because he/she has defective genes? fail.
Landlord Landry - That's a touching story but as you pointed out 1955 was a different time. Different technology. Different options. Different information. Different public opinions on abortion. I don't want to undermine her judgment and suggest she would have acted differently if abortions were readily available as they are now. All i'm saying is if you took 10 women in the same boat as your grandmother i'm sure at least half would take have taken the abortion "quick fix". Not that I blame them either. As I have stated, I hate the idea of abortion but there are certain extreme instances where I consider it to be acceptable and this is one of them. If a rape victim has the same type of strength and character to stick it out like your grandmother did -- more power to them. They deserve to be admired greatly. Not everybody has that type of initiative and I believe it's unfair to take an already damaged rape victim and further torment them by forcing them to carry a child they didn't want. It's not like you get raped, deliver the baby immediately then decide what to do. Women have to carry the child, suffer nine months of discomfort, take maternity leave and sacrifice the way their bodies look forever.
Can we move the abortion debate to a different thread? It's a moral debate, not a political one, and I doubt any minds are going to be changed by any of the arguments being made in this thread. The only relevant fact is that Palin's position is outside of what most liberals and moderates feel is reasonable on the issue.
no woman she have a legal right to decide wether or not a human life will continue or not either. I understand a child being concieved from rape, or incest is an unwanted child by the mother, but what about the child itself? shouldn't he/she have a right to decide? I mean it's THEIR life thats hanging in the balance. I can't believe that some people still consider a human life with a beating heart a 'choice' or 'decision'. There are many different outlets that will be more than willing to take that human life from a mother who does not want it. our pathetic leftist anti-life gov't who allows these woman to have a legal right to play God, are just plain disgusting. Just because the technology is available and, sadly, LEGAL. doesn't make it right or moral. If it were legal to have sex with 13 year olds in America would you do it? after all, it would be your CHOICE. Stop tring to justify legalized homocide, just because it's an 'INCONVEINCE' to birth a child.
I'm not sure how we got here, but the discussion about the kid is ridiculous. Rehashing the abortion debate here is equally ridiculous. All we really know about Palin is that she is no hypocrite when it comes to her beliefs on abortion. I can respect that.
