Wow your patriotism is reduced to who wears a lapel pin and who doesn't. No wonder you've never shown patriotism on any substantial level. What a shallow method to measure one's love for their country.
anyway...back to the thread topic...it was pretty hilarious. McCain to Dave: "you look like they guy who enjoys getting into a hot tub and watching his swim trunks inflate." <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bbnwir88g_4&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bbnwir88g_4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
I have no doubt that McCain is a patriot. (I just don't care) But did he have a choice in being tortured?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.[36][37][38][39] McCain fractured both arms and a leg,[40] and then nearly drowned when he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi.[36] After he regained consciousness, a mob attacked him,[41] crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt, and bayoneted him; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Loa Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".[41][42] Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused medical care, instead beating and interrogating him to get information.[41] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[41] and announced his capture. His status as a POW made the front pages of The New York Times[43] and The Washington Post.[44] McCain spent six weeks in the Hoa Loa hospital, receiving marginal care.[36] Now having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[36] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[45] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week.[46] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[41] In July 1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.[2] McCain was immediately offered early release.[36] The North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[41] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[47]
As tinman highlighted...you're telling me that shows nothing about his character? I hope no one would vote for him simply because he was a POW, but the way he handled the situation is definitely a valid positive for McCain.
Agreed By the same token one shouldn't be able to dismiss every criticism of him based on the fact he was a POW. Which is exactly what republicans are trying to do. And is Obama's or Clinton's character or love for America any less because they weren't POWs?
Valor, demonstrated will under extreme pressure, sacrifice for the common rather than the personal good -- these are qualities Americans want and need in a President. Personally, I'm gambling Obama has them. Hillary doesn't -- she can't even tell the truth about her own meager experiences. I gambled on Jimmy Carter in 1976. Boy, was I wrong and the Democratic Party was crippled for years by his indecision, weakness and temerity. I am voting for Obama because the country needs a new direction, but certainly not because John McCain wouldn't make an excellent President.
This post describes why I am actually looking forward to a general election between McCain and Obama. If Clinton were the nominee for the Dems, the entire election would be about who would be a worse President. A McCain vs Obama election is more likely to be about who would be a better President.
YES. He was given the choice to go home. He REFUSED because his other POW's couldn't leave. That was about 1 year in. He stayed for roughly 5 more years. That's patriotism. Attending a church that blames America for 9-11, like Obama, is not patriotism. Which is why Obama can't win.
That's a tag line with which every politician in the land -- federal, state and local -- cloaks himself or herself. Meaningless.
I wouldn't say it's "meaningless". I think his bio is enough to suggest that calling his patriotism into question is silly.
I'm not calling his patriotism into question. If you have been reading the thread, I'm voting for him. I certainly wouldn't vote for anybody that doesn't love this country. Re-read what I called meaningless. One theoretically can apply your all encompassing statement to any politician or public servant (notice that I distinguish between the two ) in the land.
My original post wasn't responding to you. I never said that you called his patriotism into question, merely that others in this thread have. I'm sure you can agree that's nonsense. I never said that Obama has shown much more patriotism than the average Presidential candidate, but I'm fairly confident that he's more patriotic than the average American, and there's absolutely no chance that he "hates America". Again, I think these are all things we agree on.
