1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Maybe Yao's at fault too

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Cipherous, Feb 15, 2003.

Tags:
  1. basketball

    basketball Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    3
    I agree that Yao need to be more aggressive as far as going for the rebounds and going to the basket. With that being said, I also saw that there are numerous times when Yao had great position down low (after fighting hard with the defenders) and other players do not pass him the ball or unable to make a good entry pass. After spending all those energy fighting for position and the ball doesn't come to you, it is a wasted effort on his part. Not included in those situations is when he is wide open near the basket and other players chose to go one on three instead of pass him the ball for an easy shot. An interesesting stats regarding Yao is since he become a starter, the Rockets had a record of 14-8 (64% winning) when Yao take 10 or more shots in a game. During our past 13 games he average less than 10 shots a game and our record was 4-9 (31% winning). Sure he does need to improve on some part of his games (as far as being more aggressive on the boards, etc.) but he is still provide us with a winning formula right now when the ball goes through him. A not so aggressive Yao that we see so far is still better than an uninvolve Yao at this point. As we can see when Yao got more involve and got more shots our chance of winning are much better. The way I see it is Houston is only one game behind Phoeniox in the loss column. If they will find a way to get Yao the ball they still have a good chance of beating out Phoenix for the last playoff spot. There is still hope but somebody in that organization need to drill in those players' head that they need to get their big guy involve in order for them to win.
     
  2. vasecase

    vasecase Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unlike Shaq's comment that caricature of Yao as a stereotypical buck toothed gook is clearly racist.
     
  3. wiredog

    wiredog Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    4
    I know basketball is diffrent from baseball, but do you know that in Japan, if a pitcher hits a batter, he tips his cap at the player? Did you notice Taiwanese little leaguers bow to the umpire when they get to the plate? How many bench clearing brawls do you see from Asia or Europe for that matter? I know saying Asians are passive is stereotyping, but there's some truth in that. Chan Ho Park, in his rookie year with the Dodgers, used to tip his hat and bow to the fans when he came to the mound. Then two years late, he is karate kicking Tim Belcher, starting a brawl. Give Yao time. He will be swinging elbows with the best of them.
     
  4. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,175
    Likes Received:
    3,388
    The reason Ming is 'not really at fault' while Mobley/Francis are is simple. Ming's problems and mistakes are mostly due to lack of experience or lack of physical ability. You can't fault him for these things. Francis and Mobley's problems are their attitude and playing style. They just don't play team basketball.
     
  5. DreamWeaver

    DreamWeaver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    2,357
    Likes Received:
    18
    I disagree with your observation. Are you saying that our culture encourages violence? How about those English soccer fans or South Amercian soccer players? And I seriously doubt that Chan Ho Park picked up his aggresive behavior from his Dodger teammates. Koreans are known in LA to be violent people.

    All I am saying is that Yao is a gentle giant. Any expectation of him turning into a Sir Charles type player is unrealistic. You just don't teach nastiness.
     
  6. moomoo

    moomoo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2002
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    1
    Asians passive? Ya'll never been down to my old neighborhood, and many places just like it across the US. If you call dope dealin', car thievin', gang bangin', drive-by shooting, home invasion robbing, and basically not giving a f*ck whether you live or die being passive, then yeah, that's us, passive.
     
  7. winwook

    winwook Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Koreans are known in LA to be violent people?" I'm curious to know you use as the proof for this generalization.

    Also, the cartoon is very racist in my opinion. That caricature wouldn't fly if Yao were of any other ethnicity. That whole buck-toothed overbite image was popularized during WWII to demonize the Japanese. If 70% of people in this country find this funny, then Shaquille O'Neal is the next Robin Williams. Scary.

    Back to Yao Ming. Yao has outpaced expectations. Could he be better? Or course. At the same time, the Rockets certainly aren't utilizing him to his full potential. The Rockets need a offensive system. Too often their style of ball resembles the pickup games I see at my gym. Not pretty.
     
  8. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0

    SageHare,

    Think "political satire." Think "Bloom County's" Bill the Cat. Think Ops the Pengiun. Think Doonesbury.

    http://www.lazykatcreations.com/BloomCounty.htm

    Please stop thinking "race" all the time. That picture could as easiliy been about Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds.

    [​IMG]
     
    #48 DavidS, Feb 16, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2003
  9. RIET

    RIET Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,916
    Likes Received:
    1
    David, I'm not sure if you understand this but the squinty eyed buck teeth is a racist caricature just like the "Sambo" big lips drawn on an African American.

    It's not the cartoon itself that is racist but the way Yao was drawn.

    The only thing missing from the squinty eyed buck toothed look is the pigtails and cap and someone bending over and saying "chop chop or ah so"

    Im not sure if youve ever seen the old World War II Bugs Bunny cartoons but they used to have similiar images of Japanese people during the 1940's with the squinty-eyed buck teeth "Japs". You don't see those in cartoon reruns anymore.
     
  10. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, what are you saying? That cartoons should in no way shape or form exaggerate a figures persona in any satirical form, political, humors or other? Does everyone have to be labled a "racist?" We've turned into soft sensitive babies...that's what happening today. :rolleyes:

    I think we need to lighten up and learn to laugh at ourselves a bit.

    Got any "Speedy Gonzolas" cartoons? Love to see them! :p

    "Yep ah! Yep ah! Arriba arriba!"
     
    #50 DavidS, Feb 16, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2003
  11. RIET

    RIET Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,916
    Likes Received:
    1
    I guess some people just refuse to understand what people regard as racist.

    If you call an African American n*gg*er - Is that racist?
    If you call someone of Chinese descent Chi*k - Is that racist?

    Seriously, that picture is in no way an exagerration of what Yao looks like. Does Yao have anywhere close to having buck teeth?

    The buck teeth is a 100% racist stereotype. I know somehow you refuse to believe that but I suggest you type in buck teeth, slanty eyes and racist on google and see how many hits you get.

    Some people are so scared of "political correctness" they pretend that even the most overt form of racism should be classified as innocuous fun.

    If you think it's just for fun, it's the visual equivalent of calling someone a ch*nk.

    Based on your standard, there is not a single statement or visual piece that could ever be deemed racist against Asian Americans. I challenge you to find anything more derrogatory.
     
    #51 RIET, Feb 16, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2003
  12. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0

    That's because there's an imbalance today. You can also turn that around and say that people are so scared of "political incorrectness" too.

    And that fear represses any writings, ideas or thoughs for fear that even when the "innocuous fun" issues will be blown out of porportion; lose jobs, ostracized, or worse censored (mostly for monetary reasons, not moral or ethical).

    Thus, we'll have a lock down on ideas.

    Some will call it the precusor to the thought-police.

    Because it wont stop there...

    You'll be labeled anti-American, anti-corporation, anti-atheists, etc...forget whistle blowers. Just "shhhhh...."

    Then you might as well throw Christianity out the window...and that's when Hell breaks loose (pun not intended).

    Heh heh...Now that's scary...
     
  13. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0

    A Senator saying, that we should bring back slavery.

    A Boss saying you wont get anywhere because you're not white.

    A guidance counselor saying, "Have you thought about taking up gardening as a profession."

    A president saying, "Abolish Affirmative Action!"
    Heh heh, just kidding. Bush didn't say that. But it's fun to pick on him.
     
  14. RIET

    RIET Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,916
    Likes Received:
    1
    David, I remember when AnotherBrother made the comment "chinaman" during a promotional piece for the Rockets awhile back.

    Later, some Asian American leaders informed him that they were offended by that. Chinaman is just an archaic phrase like "negro" that is no longer used.

    I never thought AnotherBrother meant to be racist or that people should have any ill will towards him because he didnt realize it was derrogatory. After he realized it, he understood and everyone moved on.

    Similiarly I had a Mormon friend that didn't know "negro" was unacceptable.

    I can understand those situations.

    However, unlike "chinaman", everyone knows that "chi*k" and n*gger are racist terms. That cartoon is its visual equiavlent.

    Instead of arguing about what is or is not racist, perhaps you should just realize that visual is racist.

    If you want evidence, do the recommended search to understand it's not just borderline esoteric racism. It's fairly blatant.
     
    #54 RIET, Feb 16, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2003
  15. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    I find your above quote interesting...
    It's a good point you made. I remember a few years ago I was taking among friends and we were discussing social issues (sociology)...or something like that.

    But, I remember that referring to anyone (group) in terms of race was almost a no-no. I mean, it's was almost like we couldn't even say the word, "Mexican." Like the reference of a country/language was a "racist" word.

    It was weird. I mean, you couldn't even say, "Those Mexican's" even if the situation is totally logical in a discussion. What would a historian do in a class room? :) Or a university?

    It was then that I realized that we, as a society, were going to the far extreme of oversensitivity.


    Sorry. I disagree. It's a satirical cartoon from a sports website. If you want to see "blatant" racism do a search on "KKK."
     
    #55 DavidS, Feb 16, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2003
  16. Panda

    Panda Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    4,130
    Likes Received:
    1
    There is a predominent reason for Yao's lack of aggressiveness at times, and it's a simple one.

    Yao is out of sync with this team and system.

    Yao didn't come here to play in a system that doesn't emphasize ball movement and away from the ball movement, with players who lack basketball smarts and can't/unwilling to pass, and with little to none plays designed to make his play easier. For anyone who spends a sustained period in an environment that's not compatible with his style, it's hard to maintain the same level of aggressiveness in the long run.

    The same happened to Shandon Anderson and Scottie Pippen, who were players who feeds off motion, played in this dull offense, got out of sync with the team during their days and got worse as time passed by.

    The Rockets are for players who likes to go isos. It's a steetball heaven. You can score one on one then you get your status on the team. SF, CM, Moochie and Kenny are all this type of players. This is the Rockets culture. This is the culture for losing. It's not an environment for team oriented players. Being a team oriented player in this environment has two exits, either he conforms to the culture, or he fades with time. Maybe Yao can become influential enough to alter this culture, but until then he'll be climbing an uphill mountain.

    I now believe Yao is ready to average 18 points for the rest of the season, but he won't because he doesn't play on the right team.
     
  17. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 1999
    Messages:
    46,629
    Likes Received:
    33,628
    Panda,

    Give me a break. When was Yao so aggressive? Yao has handled the ball on the inside so many times only to pass the ball back out, miss a layup, or have his shot blocked. The only time Yao seems aggressive is during various "big" games. They include the initial Mavs game vs. Shawn Bradley, the initial Spurs game vs. Duncan and Robinson, the first game vs. the Lakers, and the initial minutes of the first game vs. Shaq. He's been passive in most other games.

    All you're doing is making excuses. Would Yao be better playing with people that passed the ball better? Yes. But don't tell me he lost his aggressiveness because he's playing with these guys, because if he did lose it, he lost it as soon as he stepped off the plane from China. If anything his aggressiveness has improved throughout the season. Now hopefully he'll be able to take a shot over people that are 6'9" tall like Brian Grant instead of passing the ball back out.

    Oh, and Shandon Anderson still sucks, Scottie Pippen admitted to forcing the trade, and Kenny who? Thomas? He's gone. You mention him as if he's still here or something.

    You've apparently got Mad Yao disease. :D
     
  18. DreamWeaver

    DreamWeaver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    2,357
    Likes Received:
    18
    My generalization of Koreans in LA is about as valid as the Asian is passive by nature myth. All I tried to say was that Yao is a passive person and being Chinese has nothing to do with it.

    As far as the cartoon goes, I think you are taking it way too seriously. Next time you go to Disneyland, get a cartoon self-portrait and watch how the artist exaggerates your features. It's a freaking cartoon. Take it easy.

    Oh, and let's talk about basketball for a change. I agree that Rox as a team still couldn't figure out how to take advantage of Yao's size. However, it is also quite obvious to me that Yao's lack of a mean streak prevents him from being more dominant in the paint.
     
  19. snowmt

    snowmt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why do people try to make a Shaq out of Yao by
    b****ing him to be agressive everyday? Yao does
    need to be more agressive, but you cant expect
    him to be a monster like Shaq.

    Yao has him own advantage over Shaq. Why not
    use it? He can play smart like a taller version of
    Duncan, and be dominant in a different way from
    Shaq. If he can drop 25/15, make his teammates
    better with assists and slow Shaq down in defense,
    that's very dominant.
     
  20. moomoo

    moomoo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2002
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    1
    I guess no one should be offended by these images then. If you are, well, just get over it, you hypersensitive baby.

    "Please stop thinking "race" all the time."
    [​IMG]

    "Think 'political satire.' "

    [​IMG]


    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     

Share This Page