Maybe the problem is RUDY?

Which of the past 3 championship teams who have had to rebuild would you rather be, Houston, Chicago or Detroit? (LA and SA still have their championship nucleus)

I'd rather be Houston. They have turned it around quicker, have the best talent, and have done an amazing job rebuilding and coming up with incredible trades...

 

I am very disappointed in Rudy, especially on his ability
of using our benchs and resting our stars.

 

There are several keys to success in the pro game.

One of the most glaring keys is to put your team on the floor with the goal being to give the players opportunities to score. The internal part of all that is to distribute the ball to the guy who is either open, mismatched, in his “sweet” spot (the position from which he prefers to shoot/score). The next key is to continually feed those players as long as the defenders have not adjusted to it.

That is an execution problem NOT a coaching problem.

The Problems:

1. Moochie is a good distributor at times, but when he fails and becomes tentative our success-rate-per-possession plummets. Yes, he holds far too long, and yes, it takes him forever to get over the line, but the lack of movement/adjustment by the four other guys is pretty piss poor sometimes too. He needs someone to pass to folks.

2. Our star three (Rice) has had a horrendous shooting slump that predicates either we pass to an alternate perimeter shooter or go inside.

(a)The most prolific perimeter threat we have (Mobley) has been hurt for several weeks and it has hurt his “leg push” at the perimeter when he shoots. I won’t even mention what this does to our offensive game when he has to sit out. Subbing for Walt has helped, but his game remains inconsistent enough that he does not pose enough threat to draw extra defense.

(b)Our inside game is horrible. And, that’s being kind. Our points in the paint stats are so low they resemble a Barbie Doll intelligence quotient. Kevin gets his when he can, but he is far to generous with the ball. Cato’s hands remain cool from having the wind of the ball “briefly” breeze by them as it passes.

3. There are guys in there (Oscar the Gringo Slayer, Example, Tmo-TooLittle) that are still learning the game. Learning the pro sets. Learning RT’s gameplan. I will not address the remark about Rice learning the Rocket game. Frankly his position and job are basically the same as in New York. He has slumped. Period. But the end result is that the young guys are … well …young. And, the veterans are well … ineffective ….. and more so, they are ineffective at the most inopportune times.


The Good Things:

1. As someone already mentioned: despite all these difficulties we are at a respectable mid level seeding in the early standings. It could be a lot worse. So, maybe we should be 9-6 … well, we could also be just as easily at 5-10 or 4-11. Pick your cup – is it half full or half empty.
2. Each game has shown some measurable improvement over the previous. For example, the Kings last night versus the Kings last go-around … there was some genuine Rocket progress there, even under worse conditions.
3. KT, despite some of the naysayers, has been a welcome addition to the front line. He has consistently brought something to the table every time out. Cato may not be as bad as everyone anticipated. Oh sure, he’s playing below our initial expectations, but really our expectations went from being so unreasonably high, to such a defeatists’ low, that now … well, I see him a nice blend of bland role filler to sometime pleasant surprise. And, if anyone would have told me this off-season I would be plumbing Walt’s virtues, well they would have been offered a twelve-step program. But, Walt has been involved in a variety of ways this past dozen games or so, than all of the previous season, including his little spring spurt of 10 games last year.
4. Rice will eventually get out of his slump. Francis and Mobes will eventually be back in uniform. Torres is a keeper and his wings will spread more and more. Man I like his game. T. Brown can play and will get some increased time over the next couple of weeks. Griffin will get some great experience and he’ll play an important function before we get to Christmas. His role has been changed a couple of times recently and he has answered pretty damn well for a teen-rook. I also still think Collier can contribute (I am still apathetic toward Langhi however, and TMo’s lack of shooting production is getting tiresome, I hope it’s a learning curve dip.)


Dang didn’t think that would be so long. Sorry.


BTW: Don’t hold your breath on the Mav’s getting Malone.

 

Maybe the problem is the point guard, francis3. You ever think of that?

A coach can teach all he wants, but players must execute.

A point guard can win fantasy basketball leagues, but that doesn't mean he can give his team an offensive identity. the smeggysmeggums are still going to have smeggy's identity no matter what a fantasy player does. <font size="1">hmmmm, that almost makes sense.</font>

look...blaming the coach for system execution is pretty pointless. There are several coaches on this team. There are scores of scouts. These guys shouldn't have to teach. These players should already know how to execute a game plan, because they better...because these defenses are so much better than college defenses.

There is no time to be learning plays. Winning teams study what defenses are doing to <b>stop your plays</b>. That is what you are trying to learn. You should already know your plays. How else are you going to grow if you keep practice the basics of your own plays?

Francis is 3rd year. He is our point guard. We need him desparately. If you are going to blame a coach for a team having no offensive identity, I'm sorry....I'm going to have to blame the point guard as well.

And as far as the Dream era is concerned...Dream knew nothing about offense other than one on one play. Rudy had to simplify the game for him. He is doing the same thing for Francis and Mobley. that is my honest opinion watching these two for 150+ games. They need simplicity like Dream did.

But this time, Rudy is going to force the stars to learn more. It starts with the point guard.

 

How can you blame Pippen's play on Rudy? I remember Sam Mack subbing in for Pippen, and he had no problems getting involved in the offense and scoring. And if it was Rudy, how come Pippen still just stands at the 3 point line with Portland? Pippen is lazy and he would have never been anything if it weren't for Jordan. I think half his points he scored with the Bulls were on the fast break. QUITTEN SUCKS!!!

 

I totally agree with you, but if a player isn't doing what a coach wants. Its the coach is responsible to try and make the player change his mentality and make him start executing the game plan.

Here I disagree with you quite a bit. Laying the blame on a coach alone for system execution is pointless. But the coach is not blameless, it falls on both him and the players. I also don't see how you can expect coaches to no longer have to teach in the NBA. Learning's an ongoing process and it never stops. It's rediculous that we should assume guys like Francis and Mobley should know all there is about basketball. They're young and getting better, but part of a coaches job is to teach them what their flaws are and show them what they can do to get better.

Here I'm not sure if I misunderstand you or disagree with you again. I agree in season is definately not the time to be learning plays. But in the offseason, why shouldn't we develop more offensive plays or another offensive set to vary our half-court game? You say winning teams study what defenses are going to stop your plays, but how many teams have found a way to shut down the Triangle offense completely? How long have the Jazz been running the high pick and roll and using it effectively? By nature a good offensive play or offensive set allows you to run your play, or create a mismatch that you can exploit if the defense comes up with a way to stop the play itself. At this point in the season, yes everyone should know the plays without question. But having little more than 1 or 2 offensive plays going into the NBA season is not a stellar option either.

I agree with you here, the point guard is more to blame for a team having no offensive identity than the coach is. The problem comes when the offensive identity is so one dimentional. That becomes an issue of coaching and no longer a issue about the players.

I'll trust your judgement crispee that Rudy is simplifying the game for Cat and Steve, but I think you need to give them both a little more credit. They're both smart guys that could deal with a more complicated and more vaired offense. It's time to stop coddleing them and allow them to step up to the challenge. The problem isn't just Rudy but he is one of the parts of this problem.

I can't say I'm the most knowledgeable person about the NBA, and even more so about the Rockets. I'd like to watch more games so I could get some better insight but living on campus at the University of Maryland percludes me from getting any sports packages. I know I'll probably get blasted for this post but from what I've seen most of it's appropriate. Heck, the Rockets can just keep drafting Terps and you can have the players teach everyone the Flex offense for a second option I actually think it'd be something the rockets could use effectively.

 

Are the T-Wolves stacked with talent?

Arguably, they have a little more talent than we do, however Flip is able to scheme around his players.

As bad as some of our players suck, they do have strengths. It is the coach's job to get his players in a position to where their strengths can be used.

I don't think ISOs really utilize the strengths of anyone but Francis and Mobley.

Gee, it's a great idea to use a man-to-man defense with our great man-to-man stoppers.

 

With KG one of the three best players in the NBA. Wally, one of the best shots in the NBA. Brandon one of the best pure point guards in the NBA. I would say they have alot more talent.

Rudy T would have already won a championship with just KG alone.

 

Look if the coaching staff was really doing their job right, we wouldn't see Mooch dribbling himself into an oblivion every game. This is obviously a big problem, and the coaching staff has CLEARLY not said ANYTHING to him about it.

And what's this crap about heart? Yea, they play with heart......the last 5 minutes in the game trying to dig themselves out the hole they dug themselves into. I'm sorry, but I don't see much heart from this team the majority of the game.

 

Agreed Woodlands boy...

and dont forget that Joe Smith is better than any 3 we put on the floor

 

JayZ,

When I said, "There is no time for learning plays." I meant the basics. What winning teams do is study the defenses and how they stopped them. Then they add responses. If nobody stops you, then keep dumping it into Hakeem and spreading the floor, and concentrate on developing the best defensive team around the Dream.

There is no magic to Sloan's offense, the Triangle or the Kings Zipper offense. The deal with Minn and Flipper is their defense, not the offense.

Offense isn't really like a playbook like football. People think the coach calls out a play and it has Xs and Ox, a set pattern. It doesn't necessarily have set patterns. Inbounds plays do and Transition offense often does, but set offense...especially the Passing Game (Motion) is not a set pattern of movement as opposed to reads. Much of the movement is dictated by what the defense is doing.

Even still, there are coaches that say everything can bog down, that you cannot rely on anything all the time. You have to have isolation. Every team has isolation, especially for big men. It simplifies the game. The Rockets are not doing guard ISOs hardly at all this year. Who really sees that?

The main reason I say there is no magic to offensive systems is because they can all be stopped. There are big disadvantages to The Triangle. The key is seeing the defense. All the complexity in the world does no good if Francis can't tell the difference between a trap and a switch on the pnr.

I hope I'm not sounding preachy. I so l.o.v.e. to talk strategy. I so love to see Francis and Mobley and Kenny. But I also see their mistakes...the subtle ones...the ones that cause a cascading of mismotion (hey, allow me a new word) that results in a busted play. Hell, sometimes they can still score. But, you can't really build off that.

I'm sorry Francis3...this is a chicken and the egg argument. Is it the system preventing the players from excelling or the execution preventing a system from showing all its complexity? Is Rudy not able to teach? Or is Francis having trouble with complexity? Everyone can logically argue either side. I respect anyone who says that Rudy is the problem, and bases that on history. I yelled at Rudy 4 years ago.

But please respect one thing I know....teaching The Triangle or Utah's plodding pnr's does not require a smarter coaching staff or scouts. imo, with Francis out, we will see more motion, unless Rudy stubbornly gives everything over to Mobley. I don't think he will. At the end of these 4 weeks, we will have grown.

btw Francis3....Arkansas, UNLV and Oklahoma stormed through the NCAA's with 4 out 1 offenses...destroying the precious motions. I hated it. I hated to admit it. But it happened. Also, the glorious Coach K said last year that he looked at his team and their makeup and they were having trouble with identity early, then he decided they were good 3 point shooters. He was on the Charlie Rose show and said that for the first time in his coaching career he stressed a perimeter game. They shot (I think) twice as many 3s and any Coach K team before. OK, then add the Bucks, the 76ers, the Kings, and the Mavs for teams that largely use perimeter entry points.

All offenses can have complexity. But there is absolutely no reason to use it if the players don't trust it....does that make sense? There is 24 seconds on a clock, 16 by the time Francis struts down the court. I think Francis gets frantic sometimes and relies on ability and drags team growth down with him. I actually think he has Rudy's permission to rely on ability when there's a break down, or when Francis doesn't like what he sees. But it gets frustrating seeing the team not use the system...and those are Rudy's recent words in the Chronicle. Score or not, we get no growth. That's my opinion. Yours is a logical one, too.

 

Crispee, I agree with you for the most part. Winning teams study defenses, how the opposing team covers theirs, and how their own works and how to stop the opponent's offenses. But when a player doesn't have confidence or trust in the system, something has to change, personel or system wise, or Rudy has to come up with a way to make his players believe.

Now I'm not really talking about the current situation, with Francis and Mobley out for a bit, this isn't a typical game time situation. And frankly I think this may be better for the Rockets in the long run. It allows other players to gain some minutes and get some confidence as signifigant role players that are confident in stepping up once everyone gets back. It also may wake Rudy up a bit and get him to rest Steve and Cat a bit more so these nagging injuries don't become problems.

Now I'm going to theorize about what I've seen of the Rockets offense and I'm sure I'm not going to be absolutely correct. So I'd gladly take any input you have about the offense the Rockets actually run, and if I'm wrong let me know.

For the most part, Rudy's offense this year has centered around the high pick and roll and the high screen and roll. If the dribble gets doubled he can kick it back to the guy setting the pick to swing it, drive, take the open shot or reset the pick again. If the ball handler gets around the pick with space he's got a few options, spot up, drive and shoot, drive and dish, or drive and kick out.

It's a solid system with a lot of options, but it leaves the rest of your players waiting for things to happen. I don't see much off ball movement, and very few off ball picks. It may no longer be guard ISOs but it's still consistantly Isolation plays over and over again.

I don't know if you saw any of the Maryland Illinois game last night or watch a lot of College Basketball, but I've been thinking about how offenses run and how coaches change their strategies the longer they are at a program. I've watche Maryland basketball for a long time and the changes Gary Williams has made between the years have been more drastic than I though. He started off as a pressing, run and gun coach and slowly of the last couple years he's changed his focus entirely, to a more half court focused team on both ends of the court.

But after watching for so long now, I'm slowly getting a better understanding of how his flex offense works and good it really is. He gets everyone involved, the basis of the offense comes from off ball pics as opposed to on ball ones, with more back cuts and off ball movement. It makes me wonder why Rudy doesn't try utilize some off ball movement. I personally would love to see the flex be used because it's so versatile and much more active than the iso's I've been seeing.

I don't know if it's a trust issue with the players and Rudy's system, or a flexability issue of the coaching staff's to adapt their offense. It could be that Rudy's not willing to diversify his offense yet because the players aren't ready for it. If it's the first or the second I don't think there's much that can be done. If it's the latter I think the sooner Rudy tries to add extra options, the better off the team will be later in the season as well as in the comming years.

By the way, I'd be glad to talk strategy, I'd love to know more about the complexities of the Rockets offense, but if you guys keep drafting terps I may have to advocate the flex more because you keep getting players who know it.

 

THANK YOU OP!

I'm so sick of Rudy-bashing whenever things get rocky. It's so d*mn predictable, and so d*mn wrong. Rudy's a great coach and that is one reason players want to play for him. Do you think that they would want to play for a loser? Are Les and CD stupid? Are the people who pick Olympic coaches stupid? Are 2 championships easy?

Anyone who thinks they know more about basketball than the aforementioned parties is delusional.

 

I think the blame has to go both ways. The guards are to be blamed as much as Rudy. Its up to them to get everyone involved when they are on the court. And getting your shooters the ball with 2 seconds left on the clock does not count.

Our lack of ball movement was easily seen in the second half against Seattle. Granted Steve wasnt playing and Cat was playing hurt. And Moochie had a decent game, but no way was he getting everyone involved. He was just dribbling down the clock every time, and not taking good shots. I thought maybe things might get better againt the Clips when Francis came back. But that first half might have been the worst offensive showing I have ever seen. yes, Francis was hurt, but then he should have
moved the ball around instead of trying to force things at the double teams. Its no surprise that we came back in the second half with better ball movement, and getting Rice the ball with more than 2 seconds left in the shot clock.

Again the same thing happened against the Kings. Seems like everyone was just satisfied that we played good and that we had a very good excuse to lose. Not true, we could have won that game, with just a little better execution from Moochie. We had excellent first and third quarters with ball movement, and horrible 2nd and 4th with people just standing around.

But its also the coach's job to get the pg to get everyone involed. Maybe run some plays other than just iso and pick-n-roll. U cant really blame the rocks though, they are a young team with injuries, but something needs to be done to the system.

 

No offensive system should be stand around and wait for someone to finish dribbling and everyone run to the basket. Which is what Houstons offense has been over the last 2 years. The experment has failed. Lets go back to the post up, double team, kickout offense that won us so many games. Oh ya, we don't have the people to run that offense either. We just don't have the talent to run the offense Rudy T know how to run succesfully. He is learning just like our players. Rudy T is making huge mistakes, not only in the offense but also in personel decisions. We need to have an offensive coordinator that know how to run an offense of perimeter players. RUDY T know post up not motion. He has relied on the one-one mismatch for years and think it can win championships. Sorry, it can't when your perimeter players are just plain stupid.

 

HeyDude, that's fair, except name me one play Utah ran for 15 years that wasn't an iso to Malone or a pnr to Stockton, and I'll match you two-for-one with plays we run.

It is one thing to say all we ran were ISOs last year. Now, we are primarily pnr, and that is supposed to be the same as ISO????? Isolation does not have a pick. Isolation does not have a secondary strong-side option. Isolation only has weakside options. Isolation is rarely played in the center of the court. Isolation is not pnr...and besides, all Utah runs is isolation and pnr--that precious Sloan genius.

The entry point of the play is not as important as the options off of it and everone making correct reads. In systems like the Triangle and Sloan's pnr, you can't really move until the timing is right...move sooner and you just allow the defense to recover before the pg can get you the ball...or worse, you get in the way of the pg or his passing lanes.

Rudy can call the pnr over and over, but he can't read it for the team. A system with multiple options and reads requires players to make those reads. If the players continue to not make proper reads, the coach's job is <b>to simplify the game</b> and tell Moochie to break down his defender. Very simple. Very effective means to recover from a funk. Moochie, Walt and Willis beat Phoenix with a 15 pt comeback playing playground 3 on 3. Moochie and Walt were clicking in the 2Q pounding of Portland by Moochie breaking down the defense and finding Walt (8 assists) and that is Walt's own words. Against Sacramento, Moochie broke down the Kings for 9 points in a row to get us back in the game. In all fairness to Moochie, what happened is Moochie is not a goto player without other real threats on the court, so the Kings defense could clamp down at crunch time.

Now, Moochie is not scott free from blame by any stretch. Can he adjust his game...I don't know. But the simplicity of his game does have a purpose. My whole point was describing how simplifying the game is a necessity during certain stretches, and definitely when complexity bogs down.

Our problem this year is often getting beat in the first quarter, same with last year. You cannot blame that on Moochie. It is the other point guard who is leading the team at those times. I'm not in disagreement with anyone who says Rudy does not enforce discipline enough....that he lets the star players have their way too much. My whole point is that I don't buy any argument that would try to say that this coaching staff simply cannot teach complicated offenses....especially when that is followed with statements that Sloan's offense was complicated....no, Utah's offense is about as simple as they come--simple precision. Sloan just has a point guard who can make all the right reads on all the different defenses thrown at him.

 

Woodland's boy,

Name me a perimeter game that does not start with the PG. I can. Any game that uses high post pivot men.

Now Kenny might very well be smart enough to do that. But, do you really believe Francis is going to allow a switch to an offense using a high post pivot. I don't think so. Plus, they require far more reads and far better team coordination on movement.

Also, why do you view Francis's first year as an experiment in perimeter ISO. It didn't start that way. It was ISO out of necessity, as I recall. When Barkley, Hakeem, TMass, Cato all go down with injuries early...what the hell are you going to do.

Why not toss in the towell and give your guards some reps at going to the hole. Leave the first year out of it. The second year was effective, imo, once Mo got rolling. But I agree, I'd still like less ISO.

You're just a Rudy basher if you honestly believe a new offensive coordinator is the fix. If all your perimeter players are "stupid" as you say, what is that new guy going to accomplish. Like Pitino (that genius) accomplished anything with his stubborn star.

Larry Brown is about as genius as you can get (eg, Calipari is a disciple). Now please describe what Larry Brown has running in Philadelphia. Simplicity with some called plays and primarily a defensive team. How about Lenny Wilkens? Is he *not* a genius? What is he running in Toronto? What about Van Gundy? Is New York not a perimeter team? What about the ex-Coach of the Year Doc Rivers? Does he not build everything from the perimeter using guards?

These are pretty much ALL based on 4 out 1 in offenses. This is a very common foundation for a system, and it can win. These systems can have complexities. And they are designed to destroy zones by flattening them...by dissolving them, equal to how much they rely on penetration.

Now Rudy has below average defense and two below average stars WRT making reads. What exactly is a new offensive coordinator going to accomplish. Are you sure we shouldn't get a defensive coordinator and try to take the 76ers approach or NY approach? *puke*

 

HeyDude hit the nail on the head.

The players, especially the guards, just aren't executing consistently. But then again I have to wonder if they are being put into positions to be successful.

Take Griffin, for example. I've written it in other threads, and I'll write it now: Why is he setting the pick on that high P&R (actually, the Rocks haven't run a TRUE P&R since Otis Thorpe was a Rocket, to clarify the Rocks run a Pick & Fade), he's a baseline\pivot player not a perimeter player? If anything, let Rice or Williams set that pick, a la Bullard. I know he's not big or strong enough to be a post player, but the Seattle game showed (despite the 2-3 3s he hit ) that Eddie seems much more comfortable at the pivot and along the baseline than out on the perimeter.

And I don't buy the "...it's almost impossible to add to the offense during the season..." excuse. I'm not talking about trying to put in an entirely different offense during the season, just work to incorporate a new set\play or 2.

For example, against the Clips last Sun. Rice was very successful coming off a high pick on the weak side. Now Rice may not have the ability to get separation like he used to, but he still has a nice stroke, seems to move fairly well without the ball, and passes fairly well. He can still score, but he needs a little help to get his shot off.

Therefore, how about making that a staple play of the offense?

How about Rice curling into the lane from time to time on this play?

How about using Thomas, Willis, or Griffin to set the pick, keeping the defense honest if they try to cheat with Rice?

Just my $0.02.

 

Crispee, it is not fair to compare the pnr that we use to the Jazz's. Their simple pnr got them to 2 finals, just like our simple inside outside helped us win 2 titles. of course u use the same play if no one can stop it. Thats the play they used almost every time againt us in 96 when they beat us in 6 games. Besides, they had the best pure pg in history running the play. He could easily give Malone a layup out of it, or if weak side came to help, set up Russel for an open 3.

The problem with our pnr is it takes too much time to set up. Also, the player for whom the pick is set for much be willing to take the jump shot. And Mooch is not taking the freaking shot!!! He still tries to force it inside and then dumps it back outside to the man who set the pick. The result is a 3. Granted, when Walt and EG's shots are falling, its a good play, otherwise we are in trouble.

Granted, the play we used against Phoenix was beautiful. But it was a 3 man game. But the key was the person breaking down the D was someone actually other than Steve or Mooch. And this has to happen every now and then. The plaly had Walt driving in and Willis doing a good job cutting in at the same time with Steve and Cat spotting up.

Also, u cant compare Utah's iso to our iso. Theirs still involed people cutting in at the most opportune times, and everyone still moving without the ball. The result was not just Malone taking the shot, but either giving it for a layup or kicking it back out and the ball swinging for a high % shot by Horny, Russel or Stockton. Our iso is just one player dribbling and breaking down the D, with the others just watching at the 3 point line. Once again, against some teams this will work just fine. But when it doesnt, u have got to have more movement. Either the players moving w/o the ball, or the players passing the ball.

U know, the players are not always smart enough to know when and how to cut, its the coach's job to show them. U cant tell me it simply came natural to Utah's players, and our players are just dumb. Its up to Rudy to show them. He still goes uses some good plays every now and then, like tha backscreen for Walt, but he has to do it more often. I am not saying never use iso or pnr, but at least something must be improved about the play(movement maybe)