Tell that to the Danish cartoonist who got attacked with an axe, tell that to the 139 people who got killed during the Muslim outrage over that cartoon, tell that to the Swedish cartoonist that got attacked at a university, tell that to the creators of South Park, whose TV show got censored by their TV station out of fear due to the violent threats of those who do threaten the right to free speech.
ATW, For your simple mind, I am saddened that there are people who will get hurt by this, Muslim or non-Muslim. These are statements of fact. For this to be a threat of any kind, I would have to hold some form of responsibility or ability to effect violence.
You are dodging the question. You said you want the Danish cartoonist to live in fear for the rest of his life because he drew a cartoon. Do you want the same for anyone else who draws a cartoon of Mohammad?
It is threatened. If you wish to say something in pictures, and is is about Mohammad, you have to consider whether you will die before you say it. This is what is known as intimidation. A civil rights analogy would be the KKK placing burning crosses in people's yards. Saying the freedom isn't threatened is like saying the Voting Rights Act of 1965 means that there is no racism, and people should just roll with it when the KKK drops a burning cross in your front yard.
If you believe this, you don't even understand what the right to free speech is. The right to free speech has nothing to do with any of those things. It has to do with government not preventing people from saying things - and that's it. Corporations have been censoring media since the dawn of time due to fear of offending someone or other. The people that killed or attacked these people are already doing something illegal. Your internet cartoon day isn't going to change any of those things.
So what is your proposed solution to this intimidation? Do you think extremists are suddenly going to stop making threats to future depictions of Mohammad? Is there some law the government is expected to pass or be better enforced? Other protests all have an end goal. I still don't see one here. Again, on May 21st, what do you think will be different in the world in a positive way? What will have changed for the better as a result of this?
To be fair, yes you did...you said he should live in fear for the rest of his life......you agreed with it..... Just own up to it, and call it a mistake. DD
You do not understand. Various law degrees and bar admissions in two countries would indicate that I have a very good idea of free speech laws. It is correct that the constitutional right to free speech protects from governmental intervention, but we are not discussing constitutional law here. The fact that it is not a governmental threat to free speech here does not mean that there cannot be non-governmental threats to free speech which can and should be opposed as well (with other means (drawing cartoons) than legal means, which would be taken if there was a governmental interference against freedom of speech). And in your (failed) logic that means it does not need to be addressed? They are the tip of the iceberg of outrage over a freaking cartoon. Anything that points out how absurd it is not only to kill people over a cartoon but to be so up in arms over it is good. That is disputable. E.g., Mathloom, who posted several times that he hopes the Danish cartoonist lives in fear for the rest of his life just because he drew a cartoon now says that he does not wish the same for people who will draw a cartoon as part of this. What's the difference? Maybe he has learned something and has realized the error of his ways? What gives you the authority to know that this will not change anything? You present no solid argument for that opinion of yours. Obviously one will not convince every extremist lunatic to suddenly become reasonable, but if nothing else, it is a demonstration for free speech, it is a display of solidarity with those who got threatened and attacked because of some freaking cartoon, and it points out how absurd it is to get up in arms over something like this. All these things are good.
Isn't lying a sin in Islam, too? I quoted your post verbatim, and you confirmed this in several other posts (that you hope that the cartoonist lives in fear for the rest of his life). Now you claim that you did not, which is an easily disproved lie. Why do you lie about this when it is so easy to show that you are lying? Why not, when you said you hope the Danish cartoonist lives in fear for the rest of his life? If you say "ok I was wrong about this, I have learned my lesson and I take it back", I can accept it. But I can't understand why you would hope he has to fear for his life and I (and thousands of others) would not, when I would also publish a cartoon of your prophet. What's the difference? It seems to me that you do but you have realized that even your leftist backers here on the board can't go as far as condoning this so you choose to keep it to yourself at this point.
Again, this is so weak. Your argument is basically "you will not reach these extremists anyway, so just don't provoke them". That's like saying one should not protest against the KKK just because they are so stuck in their idiotic racist ways that one will not be able to convince them. Just because something will not convince the craziest of the craziest one still has to stand up to them and fight for the good cause. Interesting statement you make there. In your opinion, what is the end goal of the Muslim protests against the Danish cartoon? You think it is just about stopping a single Danish cartoonist from drawing a cartoon? Or is it more? If yes, what is it? And do you hope that end goal gets reached by those protesters? As I posted before:
Really? Think about this for a second. Why do people protest anything? For instance, do the Falung Gong people protesting outside the Chinese Consulate think someone's going to come outside and go, "Oh crap! Our bad, sorry" and give them everything they want? Did the first suffragette think, "Well, once I point this out to them, they'll naturally give me the right to vote!" Did the people in Boston harbor say, "Once we throw this tea over the sides, the English will be so flummoxed and flabbergasted that they'll go home and let us rule ourselves"? The day is a sign of solidarity. Hopefully, it is part of an ongoing process. The goal is that the people who think it is a good idea to murder and intimidate people for perceived insults will see that perhaps there is a group of people who have their own set of beliefs that they hold just as dearly. The only difference being that these others are secure enough that they don't need to murder everybody who disagrees. The goal is that the murderers see that free speech won't roll over and surrender if the murderers just murder one more guy. I think it is part of a process and, like any long journey it starts with putting one foot in front of the other and taking individual steps. Seriously, if you have to walk down a long hallway do you just give up, sit down, and quit because it will take an extended effort to put so many steps together one after another? I don't understand these sudden fits of postmodern ennui that I see radiating from people who spend a whole lot of their time arguing in the D&D. Certainly, Draw Mohammed Day is probably more effectual on the real world than Sam Fisher's 1,000th "poke the Chinese" thread.
Again, I have nothing against peaceful muslims who are as tolerant towards non-Muslims as they expect to be treated.
I completely agree that these Muslims that are protesting with things like "DEATH TO" are ridiculous.
What a lame comparison. The Danes are doing nothing less than exercising their freedom of speech to incite religious hatred because they can. To compare that with the American Civil Rights movement is beyond belief. The appropriate comparison is for the New York Times and several other major newspapers to have published a black caricature with the N word in bold letters in the name of free speech and then continuing to publish it over and over again because it's their right. I guarantee you that would have caused riots in this country. Imagine if some Muslim activists got creative to make their own point on free speech and started calling Danish women stupid whores on the public streets of Denmark. How long do you think that would go on before someone got their ass kicked?
Not all free speech is created equal, my friend. Arseholes do indeed practice their free speech rights all the time and with vigor, that does not mean I personally would respect their stupid arguments and opinions or their offensive posturing simply because it is "free speech" I would respect people like you far more if you would just come out and admit that you harbor intense hatred for Islam, and take serious pleasure in making fun of Muslims, and poking Muslims with a stick. I think your position represents pure cowardice, you are hiding behind the noble ideal of "free speech" as an excuse for your harboring of intense anti-Muslim sentiments. I am all for free speech because, more than anything else, it eventually exposes people's true intentions and it helps separate the neo-Nazis from the moderates. So have at it, we already know at this point where you stand. I don't think your participation or lack thereof in this cartoon day changes anything about what we already know about you.
By my logic, it doesn't need to be addressed by a bunch of internet people drawing cartoons. That does nothing to solve the problem. Mathloom isn't the problem here. He wasn't going to kill anyone. Common sense. Except the extremists aren't going to see it that way and the non-extremists already see it that way. You're not changing the situation at all. All you're doing is annoying non-extremists by taunting their beliefs.
