Agree and repped. The confusion with this only arises when those people then start believing that Greek Gods told them to kill anyone who doesn't agree with them and they actually do it. Here's what's critical: - It's still none of our business what they worship. It may be a matter of interest to understand how to prevent in the future, but it should not be used in any way to "fix things" that happened. - The people who then end up actually killing should be held accountable as murderers, nothing more, nothing less. The law should be able to bring them to justice compltely independent of their beliefs. No one is above or below the law. Everyone has to meet the law. Plain and simple. When the law punishes those things, if the beliefs re flawed, they will dissapear. What WON'T make poor beliefs dissapear is chastising the beliefs and factoring the beliefs into justice. It will strengthen the idea that the particular belief is being discriminated. This is why so many Musllims believe that they are discriminated against when the people who attempt murder are brought to justice. Because the world around them is not clear (to them at least) in that the decision was fair, just and independent. Over time, if fairness is observed, even the most stubborn of beliefs will dissapear when those believers realize that they are all in jail or in court or whatever. It's so important to the integration of Arabs and Arab-influenced people that they see the justice system will not even recognize their religion. What's the difference between a Muslim murderer or an atheist murderer? Nothing. According to fair law, they are the same. When people begin recognizing that there is no difference and leave their bigotry at the door, it will help achieve 3 things: - move people closer to each other regardless of beliefs, - each person's religious beliefs move closer to the heart/soul (INSIDE rather than outside), and - ultimately distinguish good people from bad people based on a fair law that was agreed between closer people who keep their beliefs inside. Wow, I really went on there lol.
I am glad you mentioned this, it is imperative to seperate Church and State, to protect everyone's rights. Well spoken. You do agree it should be completely seperate, right? Funny how one post can simply cue the crickets. DD
I bet if CNN reported it they would indeed care and get angry. Are you kidding me? You think if there was an image defiling Jesus in an Islamic paper there wouldn't be a reaction of outrage?
I do think it should be seperate. I don't think as humans we can fully comprehend the concept... disconnecting your beliefs from your actions is not rational human behavior. But we should try to do it as much as possible anyway. I must admit, my reasons are selfish. My thought is essentially to carve the STATE out of Islam (not religion out of the state), watch the seperated State shrivel up and die, and then challenge Muslims to create a state which simultaneously: (1) supports universally recognized rights/freedoms/objectives, (2) incidentally, supports the core, agreed values of the Quran, (3) like a mother leaving her child at school for the first time, allow that state to succeed or fail without allowing any intervention of religion and without allowing the state to utilise religion. The advantage of this is that, if it can't be done, the blame can be squarely placed on one of two: (1) The Quran/its interpretation or (2) the state. If succesful, great. If not, then the state will fail until it succeeds, or at some point the Quran or its interpretations will be abandoned. I'm happy with that.
Pushing views off on others, or expecting them to respect or honor said views is offensive to some. DD
Kind of, but at some point it is necessary to provoke in order to bring forth the necessary change, and to bring things into perspective. I mean didn't you ever make fun of someone or something to make a point? Got to turn on the lights to find the cockroaches. DD
Do you like it when people make fun of your weight to make a point about your health? Is that really acceptable behavior?
so, the danish guy provoking them ended in death threats, but thousands of people provoking them are going to make these idiotic extremists pause a second and realize the error of their ways? just call this what it is...people wanting to be dicks to people because of their religion.
I'm down with this. If you try to hold everyone else to your ridiculous set of ideas then you deserve all the ridicule people can possibly hurl your way.
I'd be interested to know if people think John Lennon wasn't properly held accountable when he said the Beatles were bigger than Jesus. How about bands like the Dead Kennedys, The Ramones, The Clash or The Sex Pistols? Does anybody who thinks its important not to offend people ever own any of their albums?
What if you're just a normal Muslim dude who isn't trying to hold anyone to anything else...treats people fairly.....but you're offended when someone intentionally tries to trash your faith tradition?
Then you should get mad at the idiots who terrorize others in the name of what you believe in because what happens now clearly is a reaction to these actions.
Absolutely. No question about it. But Dave was talking about people who try to "hold everyone else to your ridiculous set of ideas" deserving "all the ridicule you get." My point is....the ridicule is universal to all Muslims who hold this set of beliefs about not drawing Mohammed. So while trying to offend the bad guys to make a point....you're offending decent, good people as well because of their faith tradition.
Not really, but I don't threaten to kill anyone or bully them over it. But I also know I need to lose some weight....lol. I don't feel that way, I think it is people pointing out the violent reaction to something so simple as a cartoon depiction of Mohammed. Most people in the world don't believe in Mohammed, I have nothing against those that believe he is a prophet. But to expect others to adhere to their beliefs about respect is a problem.... Same with Jesus, or Ra, or Zeus, or well, you get the point. DD
It isn't about insulting all Muslims. It is about standing up to those that would bully and fearmonger others. Decent, good people hopefully will realize there is a difference. My first reaction to hearing about this, 'Heck no! That is just asking for trouble. Maybe someone will get my IP and track me down...' Is it asking for trouble? Yes, in a way. I'll admit it is making fun of the bullies. But, bullies need to be made fun of. They need to be stood up to.
They should be offended, but they should also realize that these are non-believers and as such, they should turn the other cheek. Because bullying, or threatening is exactly the reason that these provacations happen, and should happen. If you want to live in peace you have to accept that others don't believe as you, nor care to.... DD
