I think people should also have the right to offend. What good is the right to free speech without also including the right to speak about something that might be offensive to someone. If everything everybody said was tea, lace, and good manners, there would be no need for a right of free speech. The only reason we need a right to free speech, is to protect speech that might be offensive.
I hardly think that one reaction he might have that you disagree with would qualify him as an extremist. Being a moderate does not mean that you lack any strong or non-moderate opinions on a specific topic, or even a few. Moderation refers to your overall views relative to the society in which you live and interact. Judging by many of Mathloom's own responses on theological and practical dimensions of modern Muslim life, I would probably put him slightly left of center, as some of his views are almost revolutionary in scope and would face strong resistance by those in power if he dared bring them to public discourse. IMO, Mathloom's particular opinion on the cartoonist strikes me as more typical of a tendency we have, as humans, to be pitiful, most of us take secret pleasure in seeing those we strongly disagree with or regard as scum suffer in some way, shape or form (although I would never wish death on nobody, like Biggie would say). I hardly think being pitiful or childish about something is grounds for extremism. You would have to be a silly man to think that.
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Why didn't they just walk out, that is some whining and bullying to the extreme and it is exactly what ATW is talking about. Ridiculous...if you don't like it....leave..... Intolerance to the extreme. DD
http://www.wakeupproject.com/VList.asp?Series=1&Video=106 DaDakota and his followers click this link. Watch from 4:05 to 7:15. Then, explain to me how this joking/hating is not a one way street.
And I don't believe the stuff on that site, but it is the only place on the net that I could find that video.
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Yes, I agree, they should have the right to offend. Free speech is meant to challenge ideas, create ideas and protect everyone. I get it. But not everything said under the banner of free speech ends up being positive or good or useful. So, for example, saying the earth is round ages ago >> this was something worthwhile to say. It wasn't really dear to anyone's heart, it was an honest attempt at knowledge-creation. But on the other hand, if I just like to draw myself riding someone's wife, I can do that too, and it's good that I CAN do that, but ultimately it's not a good thing for a human to do knowing that the woman and her husband would be offended and there is no benefit other than satisfying my inner need for offending people. Agreed?
I agree. I've already stated in the thread that I'm not even fully on board with the idea. I've been wanting to create a comic with the Prophet in it for years. I just haven't because they aren't ready for it yet and my whole intention is to have a positive effect on the younger community. But they have taken the view that not drawing him is better than drawing him. Based on what I've seen, I can't tell them for a fact that it's better for us to draw him as a dog or a terrorist. In fact, I don't even bother getting through to them. They just start with "Fine, they are free. But what kind of moral, ethical human draws someone so dear to all our hearts as a dog?" I don't know what to tell them, other than "ignoring will serve the purpose of the rule better than verbally attacking or creating controversy." But again, this has happened because of a misunderstanding which has led them to believe NO ONE should do it. The rule is that YOU (individual) should not do it. The rule applies directly from God to the person. As I've said many times to my own friends, the violent actions directed at the cartoonists create more publicity and viewers for that cartoon than it otherwise would have had. Completely ignoring it would have reduced the visibility and importance of the cartoon. The correct action, Islamically, is to ignore it. It's not a crime punishable by humans on earth. It's comething for God to deal with directly with the person. So if their faith in God and his fair judgement was strong enough, they would have held their tongues and been fully satisfied in their hearts that on this 'judgement day', God would take care of it better than they would. But even that, they don't have. I would not do it at the moment. I frown upon those who do it in this way and for this purpose (Danish guy, not so much Draw Muhammad day). It was a conscious choice by an adult, and he has chosen to accept the consequences. I understand that the consequences are not good, but his cartoon was never meant to change that, and it was obvious that it would inflame the reaction. There are brave people everywhere who are trying to depict the Prophet PBUH right now, living in the middle east, standing up to no freedoms AT ALL and to the possibility of being killed very quietly outside the spotlight. THAT's brave. THAT's fighting for freedom. THAT's a noble cause. They are offending the authorities who are oppressing them just to be able to say it, but in the process, CHOOSING to act responsible and not offend the maniacs. Because offending the maniacs will distance them from their goal of attaining more individuality and freedoms. To put people like that Dane in the same boat as brave freedom-fighters is compleeetely unacceptable to me.
I guess you haven't stumbled onto FranchiseBlade's pwnage of basso in the other thread: http://bbs.clutchfans.com/showthread.php?t=186434 Also, please note that Muslims have better things to do than waste time associating with these people. We're all busy trying to distinguish ourselves from them while the media is tacking them onto us like leeces. There is no group movement in Islam. Islam is not a state, group, committee, nothing. If you want to hear Muslims denouncing terrorists, go to a coffee shop. Come to Dubai. Don't, for example, watch a video of a Palestinian child who's parents were brutally murdered in front of him. I assure you, sitting behind your computer in the US of A, you're not going to see who people really are.
Wow, highly appreciate that MadMax. For the record, I made my peace with the actual cartoon after initially venting. My ongoing problem with it is strictly societal - i.e. polarizing people from each other, creating cracks in society, etc. I spend A LOT of my time working on this where I live. UAE nationals and the expats in the UAE/Dubai are so polarized and segregated, I've come to realize that distance between people is what causes problems. From a distance, it seems we only see differences. Once we get closer, we're all basically the same. So I've made part of my goal in life to bring people together - through events, charity drives, whatever it takes. I know how it feels to be a Muslim Dane. I know some. I am 'the Turk' when I come to Dubai, and 'the Arab' when I am in Turkey. I big chunk of my life was a search for identity, to be able to connect with people other than my family. Maybe it's a sensitive topic for me specifically. Maybe I overreacted. But the thought of someone engaging in some action, hiding behind freedom of speech, knowing full well that the action could ONLY serve to segregate and distance people from each other, it really strikes a chord for me. No one has articulated what positive could have come out of the cartoon. Anything. The best thing that could have happened was: nothing. That's not positive, that's neutral. Also, I am certain that Mr cartoonist wouldn't come out and say "they did nothing, they are awesome!". Sorry for the rant. I very much respect and appreciate that, even though you might/do disagree with me, you would be that considerate.
I watched the video. I'm honestly still trying to figure out what the point was. It seems to show both sides as being hypocrites. yes/no? Out of curiosity, what happened to the guy playing the Isra-heil part?
