1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Maxim Online] Garner crappiest manager

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by kgw, Aug 3, 2007.

  1. kgw

    kgw Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2001
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    10
    Link

    1. Phil Garner, Houston Astros (last year: unranked): Where to begin? With his insistence on keeping Craig Biggio and his .288 on-base percentage in the leadoff slot, thus forcing still-promising young'un Chris Burke to an unfamiliar position and then the bench? With his curious decision to yank Brad Lidge from the closer role after a single blown save, then his stubborn refusal to reinstate him until he completed a series of agility and cognitive drills? Garner, for all his lauded scrappiness, seems incapable of admitting that he is wrong about anything—his bull pen pecking order, the way he lines up his starters, you name it. As a result, the 'Stros keep losing games for the same reasons, night in and night out. This must be inordinately frustrating for Houston fans to watch
     
  2. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Ah, Maxim, the Worldwide Leader in Sports!

    But yeah, I don't like Garner. I'm ready for a new manager.
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    72,635
    Likes Received:
    17,976
    Seriously, what isn't Maxim commenting on these days?
     
  4. KaiSeR SoZe

    KaiSeR SoZe Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Messages:
    8,395
    Likes Received:
    39
    not saying that its right or wrong but an opinion is an opinion
     
  5. Cannonball

    Cannonball Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    21,646
    Likes Received:
    1,900
    I'm not the biggest Garner fan, but those are two crappy reasons right there.

    I know not everybody agrees with it, but Biggio reaching 3,000 hits was an important moment for the franchise. The season is done now and Biggio's time has been reduced. I would like to see Burke in centerfield when Biggio is at 2nd though.

    Lidge sucked for a long while. He sucked last year (when he also temporary lost the closer role) and he started off this year bad as well. I think taking the pressure off of Lidge, making him the 7th inning guy and working him back in to the closer spot had a lot to do with Lidge's resurgence. And yes, he only had 1 blown save, but his ERA was over 10. He was walking people and have very few K's. He most definitely wasn't the dominant closer we expected him to be.

    I don't blame Garner for making either of these decisions.
     
  6. LonghornFan

    LonghornFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    15,704
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Understatement of the year.
     
  7. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    I find myself constantly defending this to non-Astros fans.
     
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    72,635
    Likes Received:
    17,976
    excellent point. i have a very hard time criticizing phil garner for the way lidge has been handled. i would think the way he's been handled could actually be an argument in favor of keeping garner.

    not to say i don't have issues with garner in other areas of the game.
     
  9. kgw

    kgw Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2001
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    10
    I agree. And I don't necessarily agree with the sentiments of the article's author. Just found it out there and passed it along...
     
  10. DOMINATOR

    DOMINATOR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,443
    Likes Received:
    236
    i don't either but i do blame him for a different lineup every single night, not recognizing a hot hitter, continues to play biggio against right handed power pitchers and never looking at the numbers.
     
  11. MaxwellsTemper

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    I suppose, but what is next? US Weekly commenting on Olympic sports?
     
  12. Cannonball

    Cannonball Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    21,646
    Likes Received:
    1,900
    Like I said, I'm not a Gar fan, I just don't agree with their two main (only) points as to why he's the worst manager in baseball.

    I think that in years past, I would have been all over Garner and be calling for his head. But I can totally buy into the argument that all managers make seemingly horrible and questionable decisions and that this team is so bad that it would make minimal difference who was managing.

    Thus, PooPooRah is my 2007 scapegoat.
     
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,276
    Likes Received:
    40,999
    I liked Maxim more when they stuck to showing hot women in lingerie.
     
  14. intersync

    intersync Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    2


    10000% agreed, garner is way worse than larry dierker and dierker is not elite.

    and on a side note..

    still, with what i've heard about how easily people got into van gundy's dog house last year (good players like bonzi and snyder) as well as v-span getting more chances than JL3 (hahaha i busted out laughing the other day when someone on the main rockets thread said something about how JL3 is some kind of future talent in the same breath as "rafer is the best point guard on the market right now, but anyway..), my point is that after hearing this bull**** about JVG he's done more pain to the rockets than i feel that garner is doing to the astros (our pitching just sucks, brandon backe where are you, at least lance has been on fire lately, hopefully hunter can get back and loretta can hit .400 in a month again)

    enough confusing parentheses?
     
  15. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2001
    Messages:
    17,948
    Likes Received:
    13,068
    i don't know if garner is the right man for the job and i sure wouldn't be upset if they fired him, but i agree with everyone else, those are probably the worst two reasons they could come up with.

    i think rocketfat wrote that.
     
  16. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    18,100
    Likes Received:
    446
    The way I see it is EVEN Maxim which doesn't follow the Astros has seen enough to know that Garner is a crappy manager.
     
  17. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    Messages:
    8,696
    Likes Received:
    829
    From the snippet, I don't think whoever wrote that article took one look at the Astros this season.


    You can blame Garner for a lot of things...none of which is really listed in that article.

    Yes, you can blame him for batting Bidge leadoff, but not for keeping him in the everyday lineup in the first half...that was a decision that more than likely came from the top. You can blame Garner for sticking with Lidge way too long, but not for deciding to take away the closer's role (which did NOT come after his first appearance of the season, like the article suggests). You CAN applaud him and Purpura for hanging onto Lidge. Don't really think you can fault him for his "bullpen pecking order" when the whole bullpen has been bad at one or more points this season. And he probably shouldn't be blamed for Roy O underperforming, or Woody being pretty awful, or Jenning's being mediocre. Though I think you can blame him for tinkering with the lineup so much, his dependence on right/lefty matchups, the lack of focus by the players at times (baserunning/fielding gaffes).

    Bottom line, Garner, just like every single other player and major personnel on this team has contributed to a losing season...and should be evaluated thoroughly come October/November. And he's far from the worst manager in the league (looking at a win/loss record won't tell you the whole story).

    Well Garner took this team somewhere Dierker never could....to the first postseason series win, their first NCLS brith, their first WS appearance...don't know if that makes him better or worse, just stating fact.
     
  18. Kam

    Kam Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    30,476
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    i liked FHM better.

    Too bad they shut down.
     
  19. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    one nit, picked:
    Joe Niekro, Joe Morgan, Vern Ruhle, Terry Puhl, Craig Reynolds, Nolan Ryan, Jose Cruz, Mike Scott, Charlie Kerfeld, Billy Hatcher, Glen Davis, Dave Smith, Bob Knepper, Denny Walling, and Billy Doran just called to say, "Long live the 80s!!!!"
     
  20. redgoose

    redgoose Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    0
    I really can't help but wonder if he's getting his orders from above. The players have said they like playing for him. He should be reshuffling the lineup when we're not scoring runs. I don't buy the arguement they need to settle into a slot. Either you can hit the ball or you can't. Had he yanked Lidge after 1 or 2 blown saves, people would of said he didn't give him enough time. If he let him continue to blow more saves, people would of complained that Lidge should of been yanked sooner. It's a no win situation.

    What i don't understand is why when Loretta or Lamb would go 3-4 one day, then they'd be benched the next day so Everett and Ensberg could play. I really think Garner know baseball and would have kept the hot hitters in the lineup when we couldn't score runs. Anyone would have if the choice was their's. I think Drayton and Purpura wanted Everett and Ensberg in the lineup. They weren't ready to give up on them admitting defeat. There has to be a reason the clubhouse hasn't erupted on Garner, if the decisions were soley his. Plus Biggio will continue to play so we can sell out the stadium so the fans can see him one more time while were losing. That definantly has to be an order from above.

    Whether Garner has made mistakes or not, he can only manage the talent he has been given. Therefore, i really have no idea how a different manager would benefit us. Maybe if he's real better we could of had 2 more wins. :confused: No matter what we still wouldn't be leading the division or in contention for the wild card. Unless we spend some serious money this off season like never before, i don't know how things will be much different next year. So what's a different manager gonna be able to do when it comes down to the bottom line of getting to the playoffs?

    Bring in someone else when we have a team that looks like it can win if you want to shake things up and have it matter. So, maybe shoot for 2010 if we keep our star players, develop a few more young guys, and sign a couple more big time players. :)
     

Share This Page