If you forget about the money part, and forget about our position needs, I'd take these players over Francis: Guards 8. Ray Allen (Sea) ............ $13,500,000 18. Michael Finley (Dal) ....... $13,281,250 19. Tracy McGrady (Orl) ........ $13,279,750 23. Jason Kidd (NJ) ............ $13,152,000 29. Eddie Jones (Mia) .......... $12,333,750 35. Paul Pierce (Bos) .......... $11,326,219 1. Kevin Garnett (Min) ........ $28,000,000 23. Jermaine O'Neal (Ind) ...... $13,152,000 35. Vince Carter (Tor) ......... $11,326,219 35. Dirk Nowitzki (Dal) ........ $11,326,219 40. Elton Brand (LAC) .......... $10,960,000 40. Shawn Marion (Pho) ......... $10,960,000 26. Tim Duncan (SA) ............ $12,676,125 47. Mike Bibby (Sac) ........... $9,500,000 Steve Nash ................. $5,750,000 Sam Cassell ................ $5,062,500 Gary Payton ................ $4,917,000 Kirk Hinrich ............... $2,185,920 Tony Parker ................ $856,200 Some of the names I omit not because they are worse than Francis, but because I don't like them (e.g. AI, Kobe, Shaq). Some others are pretty much the same type of player (e.g. Marbury, B. Davis), that swapping them means very little. Some of those on my list are pipedreams (e.g. McGrady, Kidd, Garnett, O'Neal, Nowitzki, and Duncan). Others are too expensive (e.g. Allen, Finley, Jones). That leaves these: Paul Pierce (Bos) .......... $11,326,219 Vince Carter (Tor) ......... $11,326,219 Elton Brand (LAC) .......... $10,960,000 Shawn Marion (Pho) ......... $10,960,000 Mike Bibby (Sac) ........... $9,500,000 Steve Nash ................. $5,750,000 Sam Cassell ................ $5,062,500 Gary Payton ................ $4,917,000 Kirk Hinrich ............... $2,185,920 Tony Parker ................ $856,200 I wouldn't mind the Rockets trading Francis for any of these players.
Actually his shooting is worse than Steve's - and yet he still takes 21 shots per game! To go with that he still turns the ball over more than 3 times per contest. And out of the 29 point guards in the league there are only 11 who have more assists per game than Francis Oh and FYI: any guard who shoots anywhere near 45% is considered to be doing a pretty good job
All those players, with the obvious exception of Hinrich have been to the playoffs, conference finals for most of them. I guess that means nothing to you when you got a PG that can dunk, right?
Great thread. I really don't see Severe Rocket Fan's perspective on this. Francis is pretty desirable for max dollars after looking at that list. two quick points- 1. Duncan is not a center. He is a power forward. David Robinson played center beside Duncan up until this season. Rasho Nesterovic plays center beside Duncan now. I'll never understand why people call him a center often. Do I doubt he's capable of playing center? No, I don't. But that doesn't make him a center. Actually playing the center position would make him a center. He doesn't do that. 2. WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT WEBBER INSTEAD OF FRANCIS? Yes, Chris Webber is an unbelievable player. WHEN HE ACTUALLY PLAYS! the problem is he rarely does that. Even when he has relatively healthy seasons he never fails to find himself injured in the playoffs OR he shows up out of shape for the playoffs. One or the other. But if that isn't enough proof for you: since Steve Francis entered the league he's played in 344 games. This includes his 01-02 season in which he only played 57 games due to his migraines. In that same time, Chris Webber has played in 266 games. He's only 30 years old but he as injury prone as he is you'd think he was 40. And it isn't looking to get any better. He played 54 games in 01-02. 67 games in 02-03 and has yet to even appear in a game in 03-04. He's an unbelievable talent who has been ruined by injuries. That's the fact. Can people quit imagining that he'd miraculously be healthy all of the sudden if he put on a Rockets uniform. I mean honestly, if that's the case than can we please trade for Grant Hill too?
Yeah, I'm sure that has nothing to do with Webber, Duncan, David Robinson, Nowitzki, Olajufreakinwon, and all of their other teamates. You're slowly slipping to idiot status for using a roll eyes with that post. I'm sure Steve Nash could carry a team to the playoffs being a number one option in the West. Why don't we just trade Yao for Bradley, he's been to the playoffs.
And I forgot to mention that were we to give up Francis for Webber, we'd never make the playoffs because we don't have Peja to carry us while he's out. (not that we've been seeing much of the playoffs with Francis either....)
1% lower. whooptee do. 3.6 times for Steve...which is more than Baron's 3.1, but its the 2 more assists per game that make him better, comprende? Yet none except for Raul Lopez(in 49th place) has a worse Assist to TO ratio then Steve...who cares how many more assists he gets if he's going to turn the ball over more as well? Is this hard to understand? Cmon man. I said it was GOOD didn't I? BTW what is Steve shooting this year?
Idiot status? LOL. I guess man. Try to dislodge your nose from Steve's jock for just a second and listen. Those other guys are much more poised than Steve, they don't panic and try to take on the whole team by themselves in pressure moments. You see where I'm coming from? Nobody here is saying that those guys are Superfreakinstars ,genius. But they DO know what a PG is suppose to do, unlike your boy. Don't turn the ball over with your fancy 'between the legs'crap and get the ball to your players in their best spots on the floor,pretend like there are 4 other guys on the floor that depend on your steady hand, you know...run the offense. This is something Steve fails at time and time again. Nash, Parker, Bibby, these guys have all shown they can play with big guys and get a good percentage shot when needed, Steve hasn't and looks like he never will because he can always rely on his athletcism to get off some wacky shot by himself that usually misses by a mile. If that kind of thinking is new to you then I'm sorry, I didn't know...I put the rolleyes in there because you have yet to bring up a rational point of why you like Steve, except "give him time, he's off." Sorry, besides his flash, I don't see any qualities that make him a champion, and it looks like thats the ONLY reason you like him. And thats freakin pathetic.
Simple. My perspective=For as good as Steve can be at times he kills us too many other times. You CANNOT have a point guard that turns the ball over almost as many times as he helps others get involved. It WON'T work people. Steve is notorious for doing this, and it gets overlooked with all his dunks and crossover jumpers that are pretty ineffective most of the time. Its strange that he's suppose to be a 'scoring point guard' but he shoots a low percentage and turns the ball over a lot...WTF? And people wonder why we're struggling? I've watched just about everyone of Steve Francis' games and noticed that he's always been like this, and I don't think he'll ever change...ever. But that me. Others think it'll take him 6,8,10 years? Hell, he's been a bigger project than Yao at that rate, and people are all over Yao for not progressing fast enough. Be FAIR here people! Steve has shown what kind of player he is, and I'm not sold on him being a championship...this isn't some great player that we need to 'hold on' to, and wait to 'blossum' to be this great superstar. He's so inconsistent and looking to be worse and worse as he gets longer into his NBA career, thats NOT promising. We need to get rid of him as soon as possible. Short Point guards that shoot poorly, pass poorly, and control the ball poorly are NOT players you hold on to, it slows the development of the team and makes you flat out suck in the process.
What good are big men if you can't get the ball to them without turning it over or be able to throw a simple lob pass? Duncan, Webber, or Dirk would HATE SF to be on their team.
Boy, some of these latest threads really show that many fans, even respected BBS members dont think much of Steve......VERY surprising......cause i still love him.....and i'm starting to think i'm in the minority....
You are. Steve needs to go. I think I'll donate $100 to the tip jar the day Steve is traded. New beginnings...good times, good times...
There are three players on that list that are not without a doubt better than Francis: Bibby, Rashard, and Jamison. Those three are only arguably better than Francis.
Its nothing personal against SF - I dont think people hate him, they just dont think he is the kind of player to lead a team to the championship. Personally I dont know yet.. he makes mistakes but so does everyone but SF appears to panic too easily.. When he panics some people may say that looks like effort or heart but I would rather have him keep his cool and make solid decisions. IMO SF still has a chance to lead this team.. but his time is running out. Of course its unfair to blame SF for this team not making the playoffs so many years in a row, but that blame always goes to the max player (usually the star) and the coach. If your team is always underperforming who do you look at?!? J
if figured out that the minority needs to have a stronger voice to proove what they preech. Why does the majority opinion have to be stressed so much, if most the people already agree? so since the board is full of post on trading steve, the anti-steve club is the minority.
I believe it was how Steve rates compared to other Max players...at the bottom of the barrel. Thanks for the info Smeg.
