Wow. ET is so underpaid it ain't funny. I was looking at the list stryker added to Smeg's and of the top ten, you could say that Francis is clearly better than Van Exel, Stoudamire, Arenas and Terry. Miller and Bibby are arguably better as points, and have cheaper contracts, although Francis beats them in some areas. If healthy, Davis clearly edges Francis. Marbury does as well, but is he 2.5 million better? And he has been moved a lot, no question. Does that mean anything? Maybe, maybe no. Kidd, of course, stands alone.
I like Nash, but I'm tired of people acting like he'd be the answer to all our problems. People forget he plays on a team with some guys named Michael Finley, Dirk Nowitzki, and Antoine Walker. With all that firepower, Dallas is only 3 games ahead of us. Now if you Put Nash on this team, there is technically only a net gain of 2 or 3 points per game. That's this year, if Francis were scoring in the 20's, we'd have a net loss of points per game. Obviosly, determining wins comes down to more than that, but again, I point to the record of the super talented Mavs vs a team where Yao Ming is inconistent and Francis is having a bad year.
I like this thread because it does show the max contract should not be a big barrier to trading Steve. There are a lot of much worse overall players making his level of money or greater, and pretty much every better player than him not in a rookie contract is paid about what he is or more. I do think far too many people advocating trading SF underestimate this star's market value. Steve Francis overall talent and ability to dominate a game makes him a max contract player, I just want him to be a max contract player for someone else where we get a max player (e.g., like Brand/Marion) in return who isn't as offensively dominant as SF but would better fit around the rest of the Rockets.
If I were doing the Rockets I'd look for a PG whose exceptional strength was to feed the post and then also be a decent outside shooter, even set shooter, and a strong defender. Another plus would be decent penetration ability. That doesn't require max player dollars at the point. Francis seems to have below averge talent feeding the post.
Isn't that what every GM wants? Steve is feeding the post as much as he can, but it doesn't help that Yao is usually 8-10 feet from the basket. It's also frustrating to attempt to feed Yao everytime, especially when it's impossible (due to crappy players fronting Yao). Steve's shot is coming back and he's been shooting a lot better as of late. And we all know his penetration ability is one of the best in the game.
I'm confused. Is this list suppose to show us how good steve is compared to other Max players? If so, it just shows how BAD he is. All the guards on that 1st list, except Rose and Iverson, are having better seasons than Francis is...plus, Rose and Iverson are pretty close if not the same as Steve. Is bottom of the barrell good? I see a lot of pro-Steve posters that feel like they have something to show us after seeing this list...can one of them tell me what it is? Because I still see an overpaid turnover machine that doesn't shoot well and passes even worse. Under 40% shooting? 30% from 3? Assist/TO 1.62? Cmon guys, aren't you getting a little gitty about basically BAD numbers? Someone please show me a bright side to this...
There are only three guards on that list that will always be flat out better than Steve, McGrady, Bryant, and Kidd. Everyone else, including Pierce, Steve at his best, can compete with them at their best. That's the point.
Funny, I thought the point is what he's actually DOING(bad) on the court not what he CAN(who can't do well when they're on?) do...but whatever...
So you think Steve has merely been in a funk for the past 50 games of the season? Do you think he'll ever return to his old numbers if he can't play his style of ball? I just don't see it.
He hasn't played bad for all fifty games, its just the bad games have been extremely bad. He's actually had some pretty good games this year, so not all hope is lost.
Every player is going to have good and bad games, I mean cmon man its common sense. But look at his average over these 50 games...what do you see? Isn't consistency what makes players good? If not, then what is? Steve has shown MAD inconsistencies throughout his career and its getting worse with this year. Actually, would there EVER be a situation where you would want to trade Steve? Cmon Pat, he's the worst PG in the league and you defend him like he's your son. I don't get it.
No see here's the problem, he's not the worst PG in the league and I will try to keep some balance in here because of statements like that. I've seen several trades I like. the best was Steve+Cat for Mobley, but that'll never happen. If you could get Ray Allen and decent point out of Seattle for Steve, I'd do that. But for people to constantly bash him like he's a loser is ridiculous. He's having a bad year statistically, I won't argue that, but to get rid of him because of a half a year of bad play is lunacy. And that's why some teams never win. Do you want to be the Suns, make your team a loser everytime a player has a bad year. Its stupid.
The Suns got to the playoffs last year, they made some strong roster moves this year, sending an egotistical shoot first pass second point guard and some bad contracts away for alot of young talent. Meanwhile the Rockets haven't made it to the playoffs in years, and we are stuck with a shoot first pass second point guard who doesn't seem capable of getting us there, despite his athletic ability and what not. Sure he had good numbers in the past, but would this be the first time an athlete has landed a large contract and let it go to his head? Ego? Work ethic? Whatever it is, it's his fault, and he's playing poorly. would I trade him to get some youth talent (Hinrich and Curry, as some suggested, though won't happen) Of course I would. Sacrifice a possible 8th place playoff seed for a much improved team in the near future. Being the Suns doesn't sound half bad.
You say all the guards are having better seasons than Francis, then you stress your main points of complaint - the shooting and Assist/ TO ratio. I cite Baron Davis for you: FG% 38.4 (career 41.2) - and he jacks up 21.6 FGA per game 3G% 30.3 (career 32.3) - and he jacks up 9.2 per game A/TO 2.51 (career 2.57) If - as you say - those are the main areas of complaint for you, then clearly you would regard Davis as having basically BAD numbers.
So he's not a loser? What has he won? Co-ROY? LOL. Yeah, that means something... So its been almost 5 years and Steve has played well, MOST of that time you're saying?!?! HA! What Steve Francis have you been watching man? And what makes you think his past years in the NBA have been great? Thats a load of crap if you're trying to say that. Even if you take out his headache year its not saying a whole lot. A lot of the hype surrounding Steve(which you've obviously bought into) is because of this athleticism and the player he CAN become...but he's yet to achieve anything close to his potential and its looking more and more like he'll never reach it. How many times do you hear that about NBA players? A LOT. Seriously man, tell me which year of his was his 'great' year? Probably his second, right? He put up GOOD numbers that year. He FINALLY reached 45% shooting, which is GOOD not GREAT. 3pt shooting was very good(about40%) as well as his FT shooting(81%ish). Assists were decent for a point and rebounding was great...thats about it. Turnovers were bad as usual, but he ALMOST had a 2:1 Ass/TO ratio which is pretty poor for a point. And that is the BEST steve has ever been...EVER. If he somehow got back to that level we would still NEVER win a championship, especially when your ball dominator Turns the ball over once every other time he helps someone score. Mix that with another guard(cat) that turns the ball over almost as much...you have a team that gives too many points to the opponent. Can't you see that? You know, the funny thing is, some say that Yao is hurting Steve's game because he's not use to playing with a big man, but Dream was on that team in Steve's 2nd year and got just about as much time on the court as Yao and put up about the same numbers...yet SF is struggling now. The problem I see with Steve is he's a scorer, whose bad at playing under control, when his position requires him to be the MOST under control player on the court. Steve won't ever shoot in the 50% range because he doesn't get high percentage shots, a lot of his attempts come from contested jumpers(which he's too short to comfortably get over defenders) and circus shots around the rim(definitely not high %,especially with the way he forces everything). Can you name another PG in the league that shoots worse than STeve and has a worse Assist/TO ratio? Probably not and definitely not close to what Steve is getting paid.
I never said Steve had a great year, I said he has had mostly good years statistically, and the Rockets have had 2 winning seasons out of his 3 healthy years. There on their way to another and the playoffs.
Davis has almost 8 assists per game(Steve's never even had 7 per game) and almost a full assist more per turnover than Steve. He gets the ball to his players better and turns the ball over less than Steve. Yes that is better...his shooting is about the same as Steve's. What else is your point?
