Architect never said it wasn't the Oracle. He just made a little disgusted noise when Neo suggested it was. I took that to mean he found it silly that they referred to her as "The Oracle" since she is essentially just bits of code to him. Did anyone else interpret his response as meaning that The Oracle is not the "mother" he was referring to?
Or maybe the kid was already freed when Neo first met him. He could have just been plugged into the matrix like Neo and the rest do. In fact, I would think that is probably more likely, since they wouldn't want to put a non-freed person anywhere near the Oracle, whom they think the agents would probably want to kill.
That seems plausible, but I have a problem with it. If you recall, the annoying hanger-on Neo freed mentioned he would be "old enough to join a crew" next year. The spoon-bender seemed way too young to be on a ship, unless they just took him up there to meet the Oracle - in that case, he seemed to be hanging around there for a while, without an obvious escort - the same for all the other kids up there.
Could the black woman who met Morpheus and Neo at the door of the Oracle's apartment not have been the escort? The Oracle said that the children were "the other hopefuls" so I'm thinking if they believed the kids might turn into The One, then they may make exceptions for them and let them on a ship so they can enter the matrix for training (from the Oracle).
I think the kid would have to be free. Because he could not give Neo a spoon from the matrix. That spoon doesn't exist. So the only spoon he could give him would be one from the real world. So in order to get a spoon from the real world he would have to be in the real world, thus free. ... and it would not make sense for him to ask someone to just give him any old spoon.... or would it? Is there no end to the madness... My biggest question is will that spoon bend.
Maybe that is the point the spoon-bender was trying to make, that the power Neo possessed within the matrix wasn't necessarily confined to the matrix. Maybe it was a quasi explanation, or foreshadowing, of why Neo was able to stop the sentinels at the end. The spoon definately looked like it had been twisted.
Boycott the Matrix! I came accross this page on another site and I must say it is pretty funny to read. It's basically a Tank sobfest about how Chong was slighted by the Matrix people. I figure this thread as good as any to post it...I wonder if people actually buy that ****ty merchandise?
My theories Counsel - The original 23 + the former Neo The Counseler that took Neo to the engineering section - Neo 5.0 [former neo] Neo represents a compounding anamoly in the Matrix over time it builds and builds. . . until it gets too big i.e. freeing more mind in 6 months than in six years - Morpheus Oracle and Counselor - looking for humans and machines working together - counselor's point/non-point was for Neo to get beyond his hatred of machines Architect - doesn't think humans can get beyond their hatred to work with machines. remember it is not about the choices u make. . . . it is about understanding WHY you make them. I think the machines are trying to understand humans in order to learn to work with them. Rocket River
That would be interesting Rocket River. And if that were the ending I would be happy with it. It's also a common theme among many movies before it. All the way back to pinnochio. It actually makes sense with Agent Smith too. Because he now thinks he is free to choose. Which would be the ultimate goal of the computer. My only problem is that if I were a machine and I wanted to learn how humans make the choices they do. Why not give them freedom within the matrix to choose. The machines could then make all the observations they want and maintain the control they appear to desire.
Although this is very unlikely, If you take the reverse of that, You also have an interesting concept. what if the humans are trying to understand how machines think. Therefor humans created the matrix as a way to understand A) Why machines think the way they do or B) As a way to learn how to defend themselves against the machines.
remember . . 99.9% CHOSE THE MATRIX [on a subconscious level] The issue is the .1% that is left over Neo is becoming more computer Agent Smith is becoming more human - he is HIGHLY emotional even in the 1st movie - his HATRED of humans etc. Rocket River
or humans created the matrix to understand how humans work now that will fry your noodle kiddo Think of the BORG - integration of human and machine BUT overwhelmingly computer Think of it like this. Maintaining the Matrix takes alot of energy THE MATRIX is the ULTIMATE computers doing EVERYTHING for humans. physically as well as mentally what are Asimov's 3 laws of Robotics? Have we gotten a straight answer on WHY the machines are in charge? The battery idea is novel . it explains the Matrix . . but it does not explain the war. IMO, with machines doing more and more. . . humans did less and less their freedoms started being curtailed. No little human . . u cannot rock climb .. it is too dangerous no little human . .this kind of television is bad for your health blah blah blah humans got mad. .. . ergo the fight Machines refused to go quietly into that good night esp considering they had to make sure the humans did not hurt themselves The matrix serves a double purpose Energy and protecting the humans . . in a sense BTW - The FREE HUMANS seem to kill alot of humans. . . if a human dies in the matrix [and he is not free] does he die for real Am I the only bother by the FREE HUMAN's callous butchering of the humans inside the Matrix? Rocket River
This doesn't make sense to me. First, it would mean the current version of Zion is only 75-100 years old, MAX. There is no way in hell you can populate 275,000 people in that time. And even if it was somehow possible, they would all know, more or less, the history of the council (they could hide it, but history doesn't dissapear in that short a time). As for the spoon kid - now we have to question why there was even any other kids/hopefuls in the room. It is apparently obvious from Reloaded that, while some captains believed like Morpheus, none truly believed enough to "use a ship" to see if the little guy they had might be the One. As for the dual matrix thing. I think it is possible. Still, I see no reason why Neo couldn't still see code in things that had it in the "real world". Yes, he wouldn't actually be in a matrix then, but the fact that he can see it when he IS in the matrix isn't that logical anyway.
If you watch the Animatrix shorts, they explain how the War began between the humans and robots. In the first Matrix movie, when Morpheus is explaining to Neo what the matrix is, he mentions that before Neo there was a person born into the matrix that could manipulate the code, could change it. Morpheus said that this guy freed the first of everyone, and that when he died, it was prophecied by the Oracle that he would be reborn (in Neo). So I don't think any of the previous Ones are still alive. I think they all die off soon after they free the 23 people they need to start the next version of Zion.
It is possible to repopulate that many people in about ~100 years. Assume the the 16 women chosen from the Matrix are at child bearing age and assume that they each had 9 children it could be done in 4 and a half generations. If all the women had children by the age of ~24, then it would take a little more than 100 years. Plus you have to take into account, they are consistently freeing people from the Matrix. 16 women * 9 children = 144 new ppl. 144 * 0.5 (50% girls) * 9 children = 648 new ppl. 648 * 0.5 * 9 = + 2,916 ppl. 2916 * 0.5 * 9 = + 13,122 ppl. 13122 * 0.5 * 9 = + ~59,049 ppl. 59049 * 0.5 * 9 = + ~265,720 ppl. 144 + 648 + 2,916 + 13,122 + 59,049 + 265,720 = 341,599 people From the looks of the rave/party/orgy scene, they don't have a problem with sex. Then again, genetic problems from inbreeding would probably screw them all over Well, Neo does chose the 23 from the Matrix and they are oblivious to the previous Zion. Maybe the previous One's doesn't or can't tell them the history of what happened. I don't quite understand. How would it be logical that Neo can "see" code and detect/control/stop machines in the real world. How is he interfacing with them?
I think it has to do with the 'NODES' that they use to interface with the machines in the matrix. Evidently IMO they have like a . . . for lack of a better term a network card . . .think of it as a modem NOW . . If you activatee it as a wireless modem . . . ..while everyone else has the cable based modem . . . . He could communicate with the machines . . . the only difference is.. . he has a wireless modem while everyone else requires a drop point. For the record / ./ NEO Stopped the squiggies if it was an EMF by the ship 1. The ship seem to be require to shut down too . . .and then restart up. The ship appear too soon to have done all that 2. Momentum and inertia should have had the squiggie sqishing neo . . so i conclude Neo is the source of the Squiggie's issues. Rocket River
I agree that Neo is the what stopped the squigglies. In addition to what you said, he was also able to know that they were about to hurl a bomb at the Nebacanezer (sp?) while everyone else didn't. Plus he said something to the effect that he is able to feel them. I can see the wireless connection you are talking about, and him able to control squiggles since he is consistently interfaced with them, but (and I am nitpicking here, so please excuse me) how did he create the forceshield/blast thing that stopped them in their tracks? It seem like the squigglies ran into something external.
A few things. tolne : That is a lot of work on the math, kudos. While it is technically possible to procreate at that rate, something still bugs me. The 23 founders would be cast into the middle of the Earth, with no infrastructure, no food, no tools, no way of surviving that I can possibly see. And yet, 100 years later, they've managed to flourish - creating an underground metropolis that houses 250,000 people, and manages to support their needs - all using technology they never could've been exposed to in the Matrix. Look at those ships - technologically, they could not be built by us currently - yet they've built dozens of them, created the technology to equip them - even developed the technology itselft, in the center of the earth, with no food, no tools and nothing but 7 men and 16 women. And they did it all in one hundred years. That's why I think the architect was bull****ting Neo about the five previous incarnations of "the one" - I don't think it's possible, unless the Matrix is tens of thousands of years old - and each loop takes millennia to complete. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
My point wasn't that is logical, just that it is no more illogical than Neo being able to see code when he is in the Matrix. Like that makes sense in the first place. I.E. - it's a movie, and, as has been mentioned, as much science-fantasy as science-fiction. Therefore, if in the third movie it is actually the case that Neo can just "logically" do in the real world what he does in the Matrix, it wouldn't surprise me, or even make the movie/series less believeable. Oh, and on the math, does that take into account interbreeding and all. It just doesn't seem possible. Especially when you take into account the high % of black people in Zion compared to the % on the Counsel - hard to see all of them without a still shot.
