the song being played during the rave scene was awesome, thus i was ok with it going as long as they felt necessary. i have to find out what that song is called since i couldn't tell just by reading the song names during the credits. secondly, as PSJ noted, they needed something to weave into the sex scene thing so that wasn't the only thing going on and so it could kind of build up for a while.
I loved this movie...It was a little slow in the middle, but was a great special effects/action movie... I saw the T3 trailer and I can't wait till that comes out...I'm glad I stayed after the credits and saw the trailer for revolutions...
They could have learned from p*rn...Neo shows up at the door in a Zion Pizza Delivery outfit....and he says "Anyone order pepperoni pizza?"...and Trinity says "I ordered SAUSAGE"...the next thing you know they are rolling around on their little sex shelf.... that would have been some good buildup.
I've been browsing around some of the Matrix message boards and there is some really good info and theories out there. Here is one of my favorite posts. It has a very interesting explaination on Neo and Trinitys love. http://www.coronaproductions.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001913.html Ok I saw Reloaded last night and after having a good 2-3hr discourse with my friends about the film, I think anyone who didn't understand it and didn't like the film "didn't get it." Don't get me wrong, that's not a knock. But the things I've heard don't jive with what is really in the film, in terms of the depth of meaning. This movie *needs* an after film discourse, and needs to be seen multiple times. There were certainly a few parts where I had to suspend my disbelief even moreso (burly brawl, but even then, it really was heads and tails above anything we've ever seen. Hello, anyone remember the CGI in Blade 2? Now try to imagine a camera swooping in and out of that drivel), but the film as a story was chock full of plot. I can try to answer any questions/problems that people have had with the film. I did that with my partner last night after he said he really didn't like the film, didn't understand it. After we talked with our friends about the movie, he was like "Holy ****." I can just put it like this simply. The Matrix made me question what is real and what is virtually generated. Reloaded made me question the first Matrix. They were almost polar opposites in every facet Matrix 1: Morpheus wakes up Neo to the truth about the world and his purpose, and informs him that he's part of a larger system that he helps perpetuate by staying asleep. Matrix 2: Neo wakes up Morpheus to the truth of his existence, and how he's been "used" along with all other Zion humans, to continue to perpetuate the system. Matrix 1: Trinity revives Neo after bullet wounds to his chest with the kiss of love. Matrix 2: Neo revives Trinity after a bullet wound to the chest by the power of his love and his ability to manipulate her digital self. Btw, I think that when Neo entered her Matrix code, he was in fact shutting down the signals that her Matrix self was sending to her body that said "Die, you've been shot." Remember, only Neo had the ability to fully control his surroundings. For the rest of them, the Matrix was more powerful than their ability to keep from dying, even when receiving a digital "mortal wound." Neo changed her code to shut down that signal, which is why he removed the bullet first, then jump started her heart. Matrix 1: The Oracle says "What will really bake your noodle later on is, would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything" when speaking with Neo about the Vase. Makes you wonder about a lot of things. If this is all about choice, and how we are influenced by suggestive comments, what about the rest of their "choices?" I think the Oracle planted Trinity's love for Neo, and Neo's love for Trinity, through suggestion. More on this in the "Matrix 2" portion. Matrix 2: During the scene with the Architect, I got the feeling that in the prior 5 incarnations of "The One," they all chose to rejoin the Matrix in order to save all mankind. If you remember, the Architect told Neo that the previous 5 went into the door because they felt an overwhelming connection to their species, i.e. the human race. I think the Oracle realized this. I think she created Trinity and Neo's love affair in the 6th iteration in order to try and break the cycle. That's why she told Trinity that she would definitely fall in love with the one. Looking back at the first one, I think Trinity was scoping him out and really looking for that love. Then the Oracle told Neo, "I can see why she likes you." From Neo's reaction, he obviously didn't have a clue who that was, so I don't think he was really looking to be in love. However, once the Oracle gave him that hint, he either consciously or subconsciously began trying to figure out who it was, and they connected. So I believe their love affair was engineered by the Oracle in order to give Neo another choice. In the past, the Ones had two choices. Rejoin the Matrix to save all of Humanity, or let all of Humanity and the machines die. And if you recall, that's what M2 has been all about. The choices we are given, and the reasons we choose them. However this time, the One had a third option. Save the love of his life. And in a rather human display of illogic and emotion, as the architect stated, Neo chose the love of his life, which broke the cycle as the Oracle intended. Neo was given a choice, but in retrospect, he never had one. From the moment the Oracle "commanded" Trinity and Neo to fall in love, he was already set on the path to choose her over the rest of humanity and the machines. And that goes back to the point about what is really choice. What is really free will. If there is truly a god (christian that is), did he/she/it really create all of us with free will? That god stated in the bible that we all have free choice, the ability to make up our own minds. The ends of those means are either heaven or hell. However, if god is omniscient, then he/she/it already knows who goes to heaven and hell. So in a sense, it's already been predetermined. So that gets back to the original point of do we *truly* have free will, and what indeed is free will then? There are a lot of other mirrors between the first and second film. I'm still trying to get my head around everything. Please forgive the stream of consciousness-like post, but I really needed to get all of this crap out. Believe it or not there's a lot more where this came from. But I'm kind of a philosophy nerd anyways. :lol: Btw, regarding Neo's ability to stop the machines. I do not believe that they are in a Matrix within a Matrix. They are truly in the "real world." *However,* we've seen what Neo's interactions with the code in the Matrix does. When he entered Smith's code at the end of the first film, they were both enmeshed in one another. Smith said it in the second film. Something about that exchange connected the two in some way that was completely and utterly different than any other connection. Neo can sense Agents now. He can sense Smith now. I think when he entered the source, he enmeshed with the actual code of the architect, and took that back with him to the real world. I think some of that code gave him the ability to connect to the sentient machines and send direct signals to them. Remember, he's many parts machine now (the plugs). Considering they are tied directly to his nervous system, if he gives off enough bioelectric energy from his brain (which all you biology majors should remember we use to send our nerve impulses throughout our body), he can send a brief "Stop!" command to the sentinels over a very short distance. They were on top of him. And I think that's why he went into a coma after that. Because he had expended so much bioelectric nervous energy that his mind needed time to recuperate. -------------------- Now, everyone remember the 'system failure' at the end of the first matrix? I believe that is what the architect was talking about. When Neo became "The One," the matrix began to break down. That's why the rebels freed more people in the last 6 months than they had in the prior 6 years. The Matrix was breaking down and more and more people were becoming aware of the truth. That is why the architect said that if Neo didn't rejoin the Matrix and disperse his code to the new matrix, everything and everyone would die. This continuous cycle of birth, death, and regeneration was necessary in order to keep the codebase fresh and appealing for the billions of minds connected to the system. I'm thinking more on this particular bit, so please don't mind the brevity of my discussion on this portion. ---------------------------------------- In the first matrix, morpheus summed up what the matrix truly was. When we first saw the matrix, we believed he was strictly speaking about the actual virtual world. However, I believe that the matrix is not the virtual world. I believe it's the virtual world + Zion. "What is the matrix? Control. The Matrix is a computer generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this." Then he holds up a battery. However, I think his speech needs to be editted. "What is the matrix? Control. The Matrix is a construct built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this." Cue the battery. The Matrix is the virtual world, *and* it is Zion. But only the virtual world is encoded. The machines were able to get their programming of the matrix to a 99% acceptance rate. However, 1% of the population would reject the code, and one of that 1% would become an anomaly so large that he/she would become "The One." In order to keep the system running smoothly, they had to build in a contingency for that 1% to leave the virtual world, make a choice as it were. That is why they were allowed to leave the Matrix and build their city of Zion. In order to give them purpose. As smith stated in the second film, what are we without purpose to our lives? Nothing. However, once The One reached the source, he was to disperse his code back into the original matrix, and choose 23 new human beings to start a new zion. He would create a prophecy that another "One" just like him would follow and hail the destruction of the matrix. It gave that 1% of the population a purpose in life. It gave them meaning. It was the means by which the matrix could be purged of the "rabble rousers" and the rest of humanity kept under wraps. The entire first film was all engineered by the uber creators of the Matrix. Btw, I think that when the one joined the matrix and dispersed his code, it gave everyone born into the matrix a subconscious choice. Would they accept the world around them, or would they not. That is why Morpheus in the first film stated that "You've felt something was wrong with the world your entire life, you don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad." I think that that 1% of the population makes the subconscious choice to live outside the matrix, and thus they are "gifted" with the ability to change the matrix in little ways. The "gift" as the oracle would say. Some with the "gift" are more powerful than others obviously, and one is so powerful that he becomes "The One." As I said, I have a lot of crap in my head. I have to stop cause I have to take a shower, but this is really just a starting point. I think this is a fantastic film, full of deep meaning and textual layering. One of the best films I've ever seen. I simply cannot wait for Revolutions. I love films that make you think and doesn't pander to the lowest common denominator of "Just give me action! The opiate for the masses! Who wants to think??!!" Matrix forums: http://forums.matrixfans.net/ http://www.coronaproductions.com/cg...tion=topics&forum=THE+MATRIX+sequels&number=8
I like the way this guy thinks, but I don't agree with his idea that the Oracle is the one that engineered the break in the cycle. In fact, I think the roles are reversed. I think the Architect wanted him to take the "wrong" door, and the Oracle wanted him to take the Source door. The Oracle said as much to him in their Reloaded chat, and when Neo was talking to the Architect, it seems to me as if the Architect was almost egging him on to take the non-Source door. I mean, he TOLD him about Trinity when he didn't have to, he went out and said "you can't save her" which sounded almost like a dare to me. It just seemed like he was manipulating Neo. I REALLY like the guy's explanation of how Neo killed the sentinels at the end. I had been trying to think of a way for him to do that, it make sense, and the solution NOT be that Zion is part of the encoded matrix. This theory works for me.
If you liked that Raven then you'll love these. A very in-depth description of the Matrix and destroys the "dual-matrix" theory. The best explanation I've seen yet. http://blogs.salon.com/0001797/2003/05/19.html This one focuses on the religious parallels in the movie. Has a very nice description on Merovingian and how he is a daemon. http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm Oh yea, this had me rolling. The end of Revolutions will have Neo wake up and say, "Bill, dude, you won't believe this b****in' dream I just had. . ."? Then a trailer for Bill and Ted part III starts rolling.
All right. I just saw the movie last night. It kicked major ass. I remember thinking during the car chase scene: "Wow! Now this is entertainment!" The "burly brawl" was also great, but I didn't like how it was resolved (Neo just flies away). Regarding Frenchy's super-hot mistress, Persephone, I read this analysis from Entertainment Weekly's web site: Is the Oracle the mother of the Matrix? Probably not. When the Architect refers to a female ''intuitive program'' who helped him redesign humanity's prison, Neo assumes it's The Oracle. But the Architect responds with an exasperated, ''Please,'' which seems to indicate that Neo's got his facts wrong. Instead, online fans' speculation points to Persephone (Monica Bellucci) as the true Matrix Mama. In Greek mythology, Persephone is a daughter of gods who is abducted by Hades and becomes Queen of the Underworld -- a.k.a., the Matrix? Warning! Lots of speculation below! I think this analysis is spot-on. We know Merovingian is a program and NOT a former Neo due to his dialogue. However, we don't know anything about Persephone, except that she helps Neo and is somehow taken with him. Is she a program? OverRRated mentioned that Persephone was perhaps "Trinity 1.0," an earlier form of Trinity. I think this is right. Persephone is NOT a program, but rather one of the former Neo's girlfriends. Since all the "One" predecessors die (and it's not mentioned HOW they die), it's easy to see that she out-lived her love (and still misses him). Hence, the kiss and the statement to "Trinity 2.0" that "their love is not meant to last." So, what is Persephone doing with a jerk-off power-hungry French program? Easy. She's the real guardian of the Keymaker. She seduced Merovingian and manipulated him into capturing and holding the Keymaker, who can prove quite useful to a man of ambition. She also stayed by his side in order to 1) watch over the Keymaker and 2) use Merovingian as an information conduit. Remember, Merovingian is good at gathering info, something that can prove quite useful to Persephone. Persephone, in addition to Merovingian, also had a key to gain access to the Keymaker. So... What is Persphone up to, anyway? If she's a fomer Trinity, why is she in the Matrix? Why is she guarding the Keymaker? Take a look at EW's analysis again. Persephone is the "intuitive female program" who helped redesign the Matrix for the Architect. I believe she became bitter after the death of her love and brokered a deal to get back into the Matrix (like Cypher tried to do in the first movie). Part of that deal required her to work with the Architect and join forces. As a human, she helped the Architect design the "perfect" Matrix we see in the movie by bringing a human touch, something the machines were missing with the first incarnations of the Matrix (which failed miserably). Her role was also to guard the Keymaker and lead successive Neos to the Source, as dictated by the Architect. She used Merovingian to accomplish this. Now, this is where it gets tricky. Why did Persephone switch sides? Well, we don't know. In fact, we don't even know how old she really is. So let's hash out two possible scenarios: 1) Persephone was around for the second Neo and has been living with Frenchy ever since. Each time she led the "One" to the Source, the whole process looped. A new Keymaker program was enabled, and Merovingian, a program, had his "memory" wiped, thus starting the whole cycle over. Is this plausible? I think so. Remember, Merovingian gave his whole "cause and effect" speech to Neo and taught him that choice is NOT what it seems. Wouldn't it be ironic if Merovingian was really being manipulated by the Architect into thinking he was a free program? Think about it. In this scenario, Persephone is aligned with the machines and has more or less forsaken humanity. Perhaps, she lost hope after her Neo died. Who knows... 2) Persephone was the LAST Neo's Trinity and hasn't been in the Matrix long. Under this scenario, she told Frenchy (under the Architect's orders) how to get the Keymaker and yadda yadda yadda. The only thing that changes here is her motive and possible alignment. It IS possible that she is still aligned with humanity and wants to avenge her Neo's death. Essentially, she's a double agent. She works with the Architect, gains his trust, learns his secrets (i.e. the end result and the eventual "choice" the "One" will have to make), gets her lofty position, and uses it to manipulate Neo into choosing Trinity in the end instead of the Source. Hence, the kiss. (Maybe she feels that's the only way SHE can help humanity.) The Architect wants Neo to choose the Source, but he doesn't. Hopefully, in the next movie, Neo finds a way to crash the whole system, and thus, Persephone indirectly avenges her love and saves humanity. Whew. Yes, it's flimsy, but it makes for a good discussion. Then again, as MacBeth said (no, NOT the poster), "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing..."
I was reading a very interesting theory just now. It follows up to what Vescey was getting at. Zion being a sub-matrix for the dissident who reject the standardized matrix makes perfect sense actually. In fact, Zion has a dual meaning through history... One, it was the name for Jerusalem during the time of the Babylonian Kings, of which the greatest king was 'King Nebuchandezzar' who led the Israelites (Zionists) out of Zion and into a new captivity (But not enslavement). The Babylonians said Zion was actually a 'false city' and 'an illusion' that must not remain... Hence leading the people out erased the memory. The W Brothers have used a lot of Judeo-Christian mythology as well as Greek mythology in the naming of their characters and the references therein. A good example is the name plate of the Nebuchandezzar - Mark 3 No. 11. Mark 3:11 states, "And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God." Unclean spirits, according to this verse, were those possessed of demons, devils and begotten by illusion. A subtle way of eluding to Neo being the Messiah - how he is brought upon the ship bearing Mark 3 No 11 to have those "begotten by illusion" declare him the savior. There is also the relationship between Persephone and Merovingian - who clearly mimic the relationship between Hades and, ironically, Persephone. Hades was one of the sons of the creator (The Architects first programs) who stole Persephone for his own, down into the underworld with the unliving spirits (spectres, wraiths, etc... Kind of like the outdated programs Merovingian surrounds himself with). The Merovingian is an old order of Knights who were charged with protecting the Holy Grail. The Holy Grail was said to be the route to salvation, and eternal life. One could drink from the Grail and know the will of God... How ironic is it that Merovingian guarded the Keymaster - who was the only true path to the Creator? And lastly, the Oracle is not the inutitive program ("mother of the matrix"). The Oracle isn't intuitive - she's a prohpet. The only truly intuitive female program we've encountered through the movies has been Persephone - who the W brothers eluded to being a 'psychic vampire' built to better understand humanity's needs. Persephone is the mother of the Matrix, now in exile with the son of the Creator as per Greek myth I like this theory a lot. Still doesn't give away too much. But very believable.
