I know my analogy sucked, just mocking yours "Their lives aren't in danger because of a protest. Their lives were in danger because they are trying to protest in the middle of an ACTIVE WAR ZONE, where their own people have been laying bombs and shooting at Israelis. It's probably not the ideal place to bring your kids and air out your grievances and throw rocks at pissed off soldiers whose friends are getting killed." This is all one sided opinions, We could easily look at it in their perspective as the Israeli soldiers threatning to tear apart Palestinian homes, and any man with balls will stand up to protect his family, and as for the kids well, kids do what they see adults do. Active war zone... Isn't pretty much all of Israel/Palestine an active War Zone?
This is a big deal. I can't remember the last time the US abstained on a resolution condemning Israel. Colin Powell weighed in as well. From the BBC... Israel rebuked over Gaza killings The United Nations Security Council has adopted a resolution condemning Israel's killing of civilians in the Gaza Strip. The 14-0 vote came after at least 10 Palestinians were killed and 60 wounded when Israeli troops opened fire on protesters in the town of Rafah. The resolution also urged Israel to stop the demolition of Palestinian homes in the area. The US, which usually vetoes anti-Israeli resolutions, abstained. In a further rebuke, the White House issued a statement criticising Israel's actions in Gaza in recent days. "While we believe that Israel has the right to act to defend itself and its citizens, we do not see that its operations in Gaza in the last few days serve the purposes of peace and security," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. "They have worsened the humanitarian situation and resulted in confrontations between Israeli forces and Palestinians, and have not, we believe, enhanced Israel's security," he added. US Secretary of State Colin Powell reinforced the message, saying: "I believe the activities of the Israeli Defence Forces in Gaza in recent days have caused a problem and have worsened the situation, and I think made it more difficult for us to move forward and get back into the peace process." UN Secretary General Kofi Annan and the European Union have also condemned Israel's actions. More than 30 Palestinians have been killed in Israeli raids in Rafah since Tuesday, while the UN says house demolitions by the Israeli army have made about 1,600 Rafah residents homeless. The army says its operations are designed to smash tunnels used to smuggle weapons under the border with Egypt. 'Warning missile' Wednesday's killings happened as about 3,000 demonstrators marched down Rafah's main street towards Israeli lines in the Tel Sultan area. The Israeli army said one of its helicopters fired a warning missile at open ground to hold back the crowd after several gunmen were spotted among the marchers. When the crowd continued to advance, the army said, four tank shells were fired at an abandoned building which obstructed Israeli soldiers' view of protesters who were passing behind it. At least one of the shells tore through the building and hit the crowd, it added. The Palestinians have denied Israeli allegations that gunmen were among the demonstrators. The Israeli army later issued a statement expressing sorrow over the deaths. Lt Gen Moshe Yaalon said the soldiers did not deliberately fire on the protesters. "We're sorry that innocent civilians got hit, we don't aim at Palestinian civilians," he said. But the Israeli Defence Minister, Shaul Mofaz, said the Rafah operation would continue, and hours later, three Palestinians were killed in Rafah. The army said a helicopter fired at gunmen approaching Israeli forces. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has called for international observers to protect his people, describing the events in Rafah as "atrocious crimes". He described the civilian deaths as a "massacre that stands against all humane, civilised and political principles". 'Horrific scenario' The UN Security Council resolution was put forward by Algeria, the only Arab nation currently in the 15-member council. "[Israel] cannot continue to flout its authority and norms of international law with impunity," said Algerian ambassador Abdallah Baali. Israel's ambassador to the UN, Dan Gillerman, said he was disappointed at the council, which took no action when Israelis were killed. He claimed that high-quality weapons were being smuggled into Gaza, some of them through tunnels on the Egyptian border. "In fact, the whole of Gaza, and Rafah in particular, is on the verge of becoming a missile base aimed at Israel's cities and civilians," he said. "What would the international community have Israel do? Just sit back and wait for this horrific scenario to materialise?" The deputy US ambassador to the UN, James Cunningham, told the Security Council that he had abstained rather than vote for the resolution because it did not address terror. "It is clear that Palestinian terrorists have been smuggling weapons into Gaza through tunnels in Rafah," he said. "It is clear that the Palestinian Authority has not taken serious action to address this threat or to put an end to terrorist acts." Nasser Al-Kidwa, the Palestinian UN observer, accused Israel of conducting a "barbaric military campaign against the Palestinian people". Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/3730709.stm Published: 2004/05/20 00:42:58 GMT © BBC MMIV
And from CNN... U.S. sharpens criticism of Israeli action in Gaza Security Council calls on Israel to stop demolishing homes From Elise Labott CNN Washington Bureau WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Bush administration stepped up criticism of Israel Thursday for its operations in Gaza, and called on the government to exercise restraint. President Bush said during a Cabinet meeting he was seeking clarification from the Israeli government about the innocent loss of life in Rafah on Thursday. "I continue to urge restraint. It is essential that people respect innocent life, in order for us to achieve peace," Bush said. The U.S. also abstained from a U.N. Security Council resolution calling on Israel to stop demolishing homes in southern Gaza. The resolution passed with a 14-0 vote. Previously the United States has vetoed Security Council resolutions condemning Israel, contending they were not balanced. The State Department said it was "deeply troubled" by the "tragic loss of life" in Gaza Wednesday, and it is waiting for the investigation into the circumstances. Deputy spokesman Adam Ereli said various levels of the U.S. government have been in contact with the Israelis about the incident. "We oppose the demolition of homes of innocent Palestinians," Ereli said. "We have registered our deep concern. We have made it clear that restraint is critical. And we've made it clear that innocent life has to be respected on both sides." A State Department official earlier told CNN the United States was working with Algeria on amended text "intended to give context" to the Israeli operation of fighting terrorism. Secretary of State Colin Powell, in a meeting Tuesday with Israeli Vice Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, also expressed concern about the escalation of violence and urged Israel to use restraint, Ereli said. Ereli said Wednesday the United States also is very concerned about the "deteriorating humanitarian conditions" in Rafah and southern Gaza, and is calling on the Israelis to alleviate the suffering of Palestinians. He also said the United States continued to talk to Israel about reports that Israel has denied access to ambulances trying to reach the wounded. But he pointed out the Palestinian Authority has not done enough to fight terror, and urged Palestinian leaders to work to end the smuggling of arms through the tunnels and train Palestinian police. "We believe that there are security measures that can and should be taken, urgently, both by the Palestinian Authority, Israel, and Egypt, with the support of the international community to address the problems in this area," he said. Ereli also called on both the Israelis and Palestinians to re-establish a dialogue, get back to the political process and take steps to end the cycle of violence. "That is one of the reasons why we think that the Sharon plan provides such an opportunity, because it offers a chance of breaking the cycle of violence, withdrawing from territory, abandoning settlements, giving Palestinians control over land, and reinvigorating institutions that can meet the needs of the people," Ereli said, adding the United States will continue to "engage closely" with both parties. Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/19/us.israel/index.html
You are a sycophant in regard to Israel and its policies, and you well know that. Your support for Israel with respect to the issue at hand makes you a vile apologist for the wanton slaughter of civilians. Congratulations. There will surely be three or four other reptiles who drag themselves from the swamp momentarily to defend you. You'll be in appropriate company.
Oh, you know me so well. If youre going to label me a "vile apologist for the wanton slaughter of civilians" then I'm going to label you a "pro-terrorist, anti-American, turnspeaking, anti-semite, hate monger, who enjoys the death of civilians getting blown up cafes in the name of resisting occupation." Bring it on, I'm not scared of your kind.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38513 of course stuff like this isnt ever big news...but when israel does something....
What are you talking about? Every suicide bombing is covered, some to more of an extent than others here. Yet it seems like it takes ten Palestinian deaths to make a news story. More Palestinian civilians have been killed in the conflicts, but we've seen more news stories about the suicide bombings. I know there are differences as to intentional and unintentional etc. But the fact is that news coverage is not slanted against Israel at all. That's true for the U.S., at least perhaps not other countries as much.
What did you expect from NYROCKET, one of the most pro-Palestinian folks on this board? Logic? I'm sure he secretly whoops it up when Israelis are butchered by that poor oppressed bunch of cowards known as the "Palestinians." He's a cheerleader for that bunch of murderous savages who live under a virtual "Apartheid." Maybe if they stopped being bloodthirsty savages, they wouldn't live under marshall law. It's very simple. IF you want to end the searches and helo gunships flying over your towns, stop killing Israelis! Peace will not happen there until the Arabs who occupy those lands are dispersed amongst the Arab states. Perhaps we would be so generous to provide money for their relocation. Think about it, what would you do if a hostile group of folks lived within your borders and regularly exploded bombs amongst your family and friends? Negotiate? Oh, pretty, pretty please. We'll give you a state so you might stop butchering civilians. Even though you have pledged our very destruction, we'll do that for you. So just be nice? It is guaranteed to fail. Victory is the only way to true peace. Run the bastards out of Gaza and the West Bank. Send them packing amongst the Arab states where they belong.
Hey, Pappy, I KNEW I could goad you into sticking up for the morally gelatinous stance of our friend Franchise2001! If being pro-Palestinian equates to anti-oppression and anti-apartheid, then I'll happily wear that crown around here, sure. This seems like as good a time as any for me to reconfirm my strong and unequivocal denunciation of violence directed at civilians regardless of source and regardless of objective.
Yesterday Israel said it deeply regreted the civilian casualties. Today they fired another missile into the refugee camp overflowing with people whose homes Israel is systematically destroying. Five more were killed. Like I said; " Shot while trying to escape." Israel defies world outcry, expands Gaza raid Also, top Palestinian leader convicted of overseeing attacks Mohammed Salem / ReutersFive more Palestinians were killed early Thursday, three from an air strike. An Israeli army helicopter later fired another missile into the camp, witnesses told Reuters. There was no immediate report of injury or damage. Tensions in the region rose further after a Tel Aviv court convicted Palestinian uprising leader Marwan Barghouti of masterminding deadly attacks on Israelis. Barghouti is second only in popularity to Yasser Arafat among Palestinians and is seen as a potential successor. Many of the casualties in Wednesday’s attack were children and the sight of their bloodied faces added to the anger around the world, as did the reports of overwhelmed doctors treating dozens of wounded on blood-drenched hospital floors. Israel apologized for the deaths, saying its troops did not deliberately fire on marchers. It also blamed the Palestinians for allowing gunmen to mix with the civilian crowd. Palestinians denounced the attack as a massacre. The U.N. Security Council condemned the loss of life and Israel’s demolition of homes. The United States abstained, the first time in nearly two years that it didn’t exercise its veto on a resolution sharply critical of Israel. Brig. Gen. Ruth Yaron, the army’s chief spokeswoman, said Thursday that the offensive — the largest in Gaza in years — will continue until troops obliterate weapons-smuggling tunnels and round up militants along the Gaza-Egypt border. Early Thursday, an Israeli missile strike killed three militants in the Rafah camp. The army said the gunmen were approaching Israeli forces. Hours later, troops fired a tank shell and killed two militants near the border, Palestinian doctors said. About 40 Palestinians have been killed since Israeli forces invaded the camp’s Tel Sultan neighborhood early Tuesday. Palestinians said most were civilians. Dozens have been wounded, and residents have been dealing with power outages and lack of water. Israel raided the refugee camp less than a week after Palestinian militants killed 13 soldiers in Gaza, seven of them along the Egyptian border. Control of 4 neighborhoods By Thursday morning, the army had taken full control of four neighborhoods in the camp, home to nearly 60,000 people. Light exchanges of fire were reported, and Israeli Apache helicopters flew overhead. Forces demolished a four-story building owned by Islamic Jihad leader Nafez Azzam and a small sports club. Residents said at least eight homes had been demolished overnight. The army did not comment. Ghada Abu Jazar, a 33-year-old mother of four, said she has not hear from her husband since he left their home in Tel Sultan Wednesday for Israeli questioning and never returned. “Words can’t describe what we went through last night: shooting, explosions, complete darkness and the screams of children,” she said. Protest march The tank shelling came Wednesday afternoon as Palestinians marched from the town of Rafah to the nearby refugee camp to protest the Israeli invasion. An Israeli helicopter flew overhead, firing several flares toward the marchers as machine gun fire was heard. Moments after the flares descended, a large explosion went off in the crowd. A preliminary army investigation concluded that a warning shot fired by a tank meant to disperse Wednesday’s protest had flown through a building and hit the crowd, security sources said on condition of anonymity. FREE VIDEO May 19: The Israeli military said it opened fire on Palestinian protesters as a warning. NBC’s Martin Fletcher reports. Nightly News At the small hospital in Rafah, doctors shouted for help and blood donations, while treating wounded on the floors after quickly running out of beds in the small hospital. Dr. Ali Moussa, the hospital director, said eight people were confirmed dead, including six people under 18. He said 55 were wounded, several in serious condition. Palestinian officials had earlier put the death toll at 10. Arafat called the deaths “genocide” and a “massacre that stands against all humane, civilized and political principles.” Thousands of Palestinians marched in Gaza City on Wednesday evening to condemn the Israeli attack. About 1,000 people marched in the West Bank city of Ramallah. The fighting has revived debate inside Israel on its continued presence in Gaza. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has proposed withdrawing from the volatile area, but his Likud Party rejected the proposal earlier this month. Sharon has pledged to push forward with his plan. In a statement Wednesday, the White House statement said Wednesday’s deaths “serve as a grim reminder of the wisdom” of Israel pulling out of Gaza. Barghouti jailed Amid the spiral of bloodshed, a Tel Aviv court found Barghouti guilty of murder over the killing of five Israelis. But it cleared him of masterminding attacks that led to the deaths of more than 20 other Israelis. The conviction was likely to result in a life sentence for the 44-year-old West Bank legislator, who was arrested in 2002. Barghouti denied orchestrating suicide bombings and shooting ambushes and accused Israel of putting on a political show trial against what he called legitimate resistance against Israeli occupation. Also Thursday, a New York Times correspondent narrowly escaped a kidnap attempt by Palestinians in Gaza, the newspaper said. James Bennet, bureau chief for Israel and the Palestinian territories, said he was speaking on a cellphone in front of a Rafah hospital on Wednesday when a Palestinian he did not know came up, smiled and offered his hand, saying “Welcome.” When Bennet shook his hand, the man and another Palestinian grabbed him and tried to thrust him into an old Mercedes that pulled up with its back door open, recalling kidnappings of foreigners by Muslim militants in wartime Beirut in the 1980s. An abduction was averted only by police at the hospital, who ran to Bennet’s assistance in response to his struggle and cries. The men then jumped in the car and sped away, the correspondent said in his dispatch in Thursday’s Times. The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
BTW, I should clarify...as is customary in Palestine, those who were militants and were killed were admitted being so by the Palestinians. In this case they are admitting that all 5 killed today were such. My point was that the Israelis fired on another area heavily populated with civilians, and took their chances one day after killing children and claiming deep regret.
I'm sorry I killed your kids. It was not my intention to do so. At lease I don't want them be actually killed. But they were so noisy, and annoying when I was having my lunch. I've had enough. I fired some random shots around them, not to kill them but to just shut him down. Several bullets bounced off wall and killed them. It was totally an accident. Now I know I should probably not use fire-gun to deter their annoying antics. I wouldn't do this, definitely, to my own kids. But who cares if they actually got killed accidentally, that's teh key word, I emphasize again, since they are really the second class citizen and human-beings in my eyes. I apologize. have apologized before,and I apologize again. Now get off my back, cry somewhere else, and let me finish my salad. sincerely yours.
Peace will not happen there until the Israelis who occupy those lands are dispersed amongst the European states. ( we can go all day with retarted comments like the one I am currently mocking) " Think about it, what would you do if a hostile group of folks lived within your borders and regularly exploded bombs amongst your family and friends? Negotiate? Oh, pretty, pretty please." Which one of them uprooted the original occupants of the land? which one of them used force to push out a group of peole that were already established and living a peaceful lifestyle with their JEWISH and Christian counterparts. "Run the bastards out of Gaza and the West Bank. Send them packing amongst the Arab states where they belong." Run the bastards out of Palestine. Send them packing amongst Germany, and USA where they belong... (trust me its not that hard to go back and forth slapping accusations and cursing one or another side, but dear lord atleast think before you post... which one of these people was just attacked? yes it was those bastards with bombs strapped to their chests that were attacked by the army right? )
If there were no weapons smuggling or Islamic Jihad bombmaking going on there wouldn't be any reason for the army to be there in the first place. I had a friend killed 8 days ago in an APC in Gaza on a mission no different than your would-be babykillers. And I guarantee you he didn't want to be there. When he died, they kept what was left of his body parts for ransom and celebrated. Only the efforts of a prominant Muslim cleric in Israel got his and his companions' remains back to their respective families. Here's the story: http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=7175 IDF to remain in Gaza until all body parts recovered IDF escalating operations to locate and recover body parts, government approaches ICRC to intervene in order to retreive body parts Hamas claims to be holding. Maj. Gen. Harel: To bring soldiers to proper burial is top priority. Amir Buhbut, Itamar Inbari, Yifat Zohar and Maariv News Service _ Advertisement The IDF is continuing extensive search operations, including house to house searches to retreive body parts of the 6 IDF soldiers killed earlier this morning in Gaza. Reinforcements have been sent to the area, and wil remain there until all the body parts Hamas claims to be holding are returned to Israel. Hamas has announced it wants to negotiate a "body parts for prisoners swap", an idea rejected by Israel as a "ghoulish non starter". Israel has announced that IDF forces will remain in Gaza until all the body parts have been returned to Israel for burial. OC Southern Command Maj. Gen. Harel and other senior figures have reiterated that Israel's top priority at this stage is to ensure the soldiers are buried with dignity, as they deserve. In a statement issued by Hamas in Gaza, the terror group wrote, “We are holding parts of your bodies. We have demands if the Zionist enemy wants them”. However, the statement did not include a list of demands. Harel added, “We have brought in reinforcements, we are in control of the fighting zone and will do everything in our power to bring our fallen soldiers to burial”. Harel also referred to the video shown on television in which a Palestinian mob is seen mutilating the body parts of the killed troops. “It made me sick to my stomach. It is unbelievable that human beings could reach such lows. The movie I saw emphasizes the difference between us and them”. Israeli defense officials have turned to the Red Cross and asked it to demand of all Palestinian groups the organization has contacts with to return the body parts of the killed soldiers. The Red Cross' spokesman in Israel, Uri Masad, told Maariv Online, “We will pass on the information we will receive from the Palestinian groups to Israel”. The six soldiers of the Givati brigade's Enginering platoon (Palhan Givati) were killed this morning in Gaza's al-Zaytun neighborhood when the APC (Armored Personnel Carrier) they were riding in drove over a massive explosive device. The blast ripped the vehicle, which also contained over 100 kg. of explosives, to shreds instantly killing all six occupants, and scattering body parts over a wide area. The troops were on their way back from a mission to seek and destroy tunnels used by Palestinian terrorists to smuggle weapons from Egypt to Gaza. According to a report on the al-Jazeera network, the Hamas' military wing, Iz-a-din al-Kassam Brigades, claimed responsibility for the attack. The incident was reportedly followed by heavy exchanges of fire between IDF soldiers and Palestinians. The Palestinians are reporting that seven people were killed in the operation and 100 have been injured on the Palestinian side. Army Radio reported that the IDF has dispatched reinforcements to the area as a result of the fierce resistance. According to Palestinian eyewitness accounts, six Israeli tanks and ten jeeps entered the al-Zaytun neighborhood over night and took positions on the roofs of three houses. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has called an urgent inner cabinet meeting at 8:30 this evening following the attack. In addition, Chief of Staff Moshe Yaalon has decided to cancel his trip to Poland. Sharon said today at the Knesset, “We are fighting a cruel and inhumane enemy. We won’t stop fighting and attacking it, wherever it hides”. Minister of Defense Shaul Mofaz vowed to “get to all those who hurt our soldiers and desecrated their honor”. “Every soldier who dies in Gaza, dies in vain”, MK Yossi Sarid said after the attack. “The pain for the fallen troops today in Gaza is a double one – both for their actual death and for the superfluousness of it all. No one has anything in Gaza except for the settlers”. Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, a staunch supporter of the disengagement plan, said he was not surprised. “It is a phenomenon that repeats itself. It’s part of the war on terror. We will reach any place to fight terrorism”, he said. Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked about the connection between the attack and the disengagement plan. Netanyahu replied, “There is no connection between the two. The fight against terror must be persistent and the government is committed to that. We will fight terror regardless of the political questions”. Chairman of the Labor party and the Opposition, Shimon Peres, said this morning in Beer Sheva, “I wish to pay my condolences to the families. I am hurting like everyone in Israel. Real conclusions must be drawn regarding the Gaza Strip”. For story on Givati unit who lost soldiers, see: Death strikes Givati unit again
I truly sympathize about what happened to your friend, and any Israeli Civillian, and even the soldiers who are unaware or just out there to keep the peace... But this is a tom and jerry type war, each one has their own reasons to continue, and neither side will stop unless the other stops first....
Deji: I feel for you about your friend, but that doesn't make your reasoning any better. As the SA's said several thousand times, if they weren't trying to escape, why would we have shot them?
last week....i watched tv and saw my President, George W Bush and Donald Rumsfield apologize for the torture that has occured in Iraq....I saw them apologize to the Iraqi people and the king of jordan or sometihng....at the same time I read about the murder of 5 israelis...5 Arabs in the West bank stopped a car with a mother and 4 children, shot the mother, then 1 by 1 killed children of 7, 9, 11 and 3......I waited and waited for an apology from one of their leaders....nothing...all I heard WAS CLAIMING RESPONSIBILITY BY HAMAS...I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR ANY RETALIATION ISRAEL DOES BECAUSE THEIR LEADERS TAKE RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THEIR ACTIONS...leaders of the Arab world never do anything but support these actions.....keep on doing what you have to do israel because I support you 100000000%
Ultimately, peace won't happen until the Palestinian leadership abandons the fantasy of kicking all the Jews out of Israel and taking it over. Then they need to declare a state and concern themselves with creating an infrastructure and fighitng corruption and promoting trade and education and changing the society to one that promotes peace instead of death-worship. Arafat had that chance and didn't do it, because its much easier to stir everyone up and keep them angry and destructive then it does to declare victory make peace and build a real society that offers a future. Its not like there aren't educated Palesinians that know that. But to speak out in favor of reconciliation and peace gets you killed.
