mark price or jason kidd? (wake up people!!!)

YOU PEOPLE ARE STUPID! No one is saying Bryce Drew should start over Francis! Were saying let Bryce Drew start and Francis start! Francis at SG and Drew at PG. or other way around.

 

Gosh, BryceDrewFan, that's not very nice.

You shouldn't call people 'stupid' just because they disagree with you.

Please don't do it again. Thank you.

 

This debate has taken on a life of it's own. Seems to be no middle ground allowed here. Look guys, we have two good point guards right now. It's a fact. One (Francis) clearly has superstar potential now. The other (Drew) more likely than not will be a starter in this league. If Drew develops into a Mark Price or John Stockton type talent no doubt some will be griping that we should have kept him over Francis. (Especially if Francis doesn't pan out for some reason or bolts the team at the end of his contract.) Drew will most likely leave via a trade. He is becoming a valuable commodity. If not he will cash in on free agency when his contract is up. His future looks bright right now and will get brighter if he continues to improve as he has. With that said Francis is clearly the point guard for now and the future at this point for the Rockets. They gave up alot to get him and he will get every opportunity to succeed. I hope he pans out and it is looking very likely that he will. Still, don't be suprised if you see Bryce Drew starting at the point for another team in the near future. He isn't as good as some of you think and he is not nearly as bad as some of you seem to wish he was.

[This message has been edited by JT (edited December 13, 1999).]

 

Verse- I think you are partly right about the court vision, but there are exceptions. Think of MJ. He could have played PG (and at times he did) but he was more effective as a SG.

I can see this same thing working with the Rockets. Especially if we swing Anderson to the #3, we would look very similar to those Bulls teams. A PG who can knock down shots (Harper-Drew), a SG who is the key to the offense (Jordan-Francis), and a SF who can also play the point (Pip- Anderson (more Mobley as the point forward though).

I know everyone wants Francis to be a PG, but since we are rebuilding I say we at least experiment with this line up. What else do we have to lose?

Just my take - No way I want Francis on the bench, but I believe Drew & Mobley have earned their minutes, and for those 2 games Anderson played great!

 

Verse,
Steve Francis IS a better point guard than Bryce Drew, but Bryce Drew IS PLAYING LIKE a better point guard than Steve Francis as of late. That statement, sir, is undeniable.

Pass 1st, shoot 2nd.

 

One difference (among many) between Harper/Jordan/Pippen and Drew/Francis/Anderson: height. Harper is 6'6" to Drew's 6'3", Jordan was 6'6" to Francis' 6'5", and Pippen is 6'7" to Anderson's 6'6" (all official heights). Chicago had some big, fast, defensive guys, while we have little, fast, ho-hum defensive guys.

 

Verse:

Problem w/ starting Cuttino & Francis is they are the only shot creaters that we have. I really like the spark and athleticism Mobley brings off the bench.

Also, if Walt does continue in our rotation, I can't see Drew & Walt on the court together. Therefore it is almost out of necessity (I think) to start one and sub in the other one. Both lack on D and their Offensive games are too similar to be on the court together.

I don't know I like to ride a hot shooter, and Bryce has been playing well the last few games. I would consider starting him at the point and slide Francis to the #2, with Anderson as the #3. Cato at the center then T-Mass/Rogers/Thomas at the #4. That would leave mobley as our 6th man to play the 1,2, or 3.

I guess in theory we don't even need a SG & PG. Either one could bring the ball up. Obviously it would be nice to have Francis lead the break, and have Drew run the set offense (which in essence would be used to get Francis open looks and keep him out of double teams when possible). If we need one shot Francis gets the ball, and Francis still gets experience at the point as the backup PG when Mobley/Williams/Rogers/etc subs for Drew.

 

Good point Juan, Chicago was definetely a little taller & more athletic. I guess I am just hoping we can find some extra minutes for Mobley/Drew/Anderson by giving then 2 positions to play.

 

Regarding a few comments about Drew....when Francis is in, don't they alternate between 1 and 2?

Juan: Francis is 6'3

 

I don't think anybody here really thinks that Mark Price or Jason Kidd are comparable to Drew, or even the one that I heard of Stockton.

People are just a little excited to see somebody so panned in the preseason by many, and defended by the few including me who thought that this would be his year to grow. I and many others were called crazy and much worse, for not coming out and saying he completely sucked. We said he would grow with some playing time this year, and grow he has.

The evidence of such growth is that Bryce Drew debates often take up a large portion of this board, and now some are comparing him here to greats, its defintley over the top, but it proves that Drew has gotten better.

This guy could be a keeper for this team, his only issue now as I see it is his defense. I have never seen a player who got their hands up in the shooters face only to be j-ed so much. It's like the offensive players have absolutely no fear of him.

That said he deserves only the mildest of comparisons at this point, but in time who knows, no one thought he'd be playing like this after 20 games.

[This message has been edited by CaucasionSensation (edited December 13, 1999).]

 

Verse,
Do the math. Right now, Drew has stepped up and Francis has taken a step backwards from the near triple double vancouver game. I agree that Francis should still start, but c'mon man, pull the wool away from your eyes! Don't forget that the recent games we've seen Drew excell in were not your classic "DIT" games, either.
Drew is proving himself to be just as good as anybody could hope him to be. His ceiling of ability is a few stories lower than Francis', but right now Drew deserves more minutes than he's getting. We should make Francis work a little harder. Competition couldn't hurt things.

 

I think Drew is finally coming out of shell. He's starting to show that he can be a solid starter. Problem is Francis already occupies that position. I personally think he's too good of a backup and should be traded for the likes of Theo, Mo, etc. We already have a great backup guard in Mobes and I would rather trade Drew than Mobley.

 

To answer your question Verse. I would rather have either Jason Kidd or Mark Price in their prime then Steve Francis.

In addition, I don't think your comparison is fair. I think Francis is more like Iverson, then either Kidd ( Who is all about the assists) and Price ( who is all about doing whatever it takes to win as a team)

Now don't take this as I am down on Francis, because I am not. I think he has HUGE potential. But, I am not ready to annoint him Superstar status because he has a great crossover dribble.

IMHO, the only thing that matters is whether you make your TEAM and TEAMATES better. Right now Steve doesn't and Kidd and Price both did.

However, I think Steve will get there, it is just going to take about 3-5 years.

DaDakota

"I am impatient, but it looks like we are in for a long haul, so hunker down and pass the pretzels and beer, we are going to need them"

 

I'm pretty I can speak for everyone (except BryceDrewFan--hehe) when I say I'm surprised it took you until the bottom of this trhread Verse for you to see most people don't think Drew should start....so what was the point of your rhetorical question thread title?

I've got a question that might add something to this talk about how Drew doesn't deserve to start:

Name as many 2nd teamer point guards the Rockets have had through the years. Here, I'll start:

drew/price/malony
davis/livinston
scotty brooks,
avery johnson (chased out of houston by fans for no shot)
allen leavell
cassell
Sleepy Floyd (he didn't really play a true pg as I recall,,,and he started sucking it up when scotty started getting his minutes)

I'm pretty sure this takes us into the 80s. So, Cassell clearly outplayed Drew....Leavell is the next closest I see. What do you expect from a 2nd teamer. Drew is fine, already!!

Now consider this: do you think Drew is better than Kenny Smith. He's certainly faster. And if he gets that runner falling consistantly, I've got 10-12 minutes for him on my team!!


[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 13, 1999).]

 

Verse you make so me good points.

However I think most people are saying give Drew minutes at the point and move Francis to the #2.

I definetely want Francis on the court and Drew is playing well lately.

One major point is everyone assumes Francis is going to be a star PG, which I am not totally sure of. He will be a great player, just not sure if it will be at the PG or SG.

 

I don't think anyone has tried to argue that Drew is better than Francis now or that he will be in the future. What I have seen argued (and I am in general agreement) is that Drew is emminently qualified as a back-up PG to Francis now and in the future. Within the bounds of people's expectations of his performace in a back-up role, he has performed admirably.