I will be happy with Shelden on the Rockets even though he doesn't give us exactly what we need. He is a solid and safe pick.
Shelden Williams an allstar? I like Shelden but this is absolutely ridiculous. Tell me why people would vote to see him play in an allstar game. Like I said, I like Sheldon a lot and he would be a decent pick, but saying he has no holes in his game has homerism written all over it. The guy is a very good rebounder and defender, but any type of offense outside of 3-4 feet is almost non-existent. Shelden will be an Antonio Davis at best (which isn't a bad thing) but I'd rather go w/ a player with more potential at #8.
You're so confused I'm not sure where to start. First, no rational person is suggesting the Rockets mimic the Suns. With your "run and gun" comment it is obvious you've failed to consider the subtlety of multiple transition tempos. A team with Yao, Howard and Alston is a very one speed transition team. Transition is where the easy baskets are. Williams doesn't help that at all. And forcing tempo has nothing to do with "tiring Yao out". The Show Time Lakers had a 40 year old Center. Secondly, if you want to suggest the Rockets are or should be more like the Spurs, Heat or Pistons, at least acknowlege the fact that ALL of them have only 1 primary low post threat. Haslem is not a primary low post threat and Walker can post up but he sets that up in transition and with the fact he has shooting range. Walker is excellent in transition. All of the Heat other than Shaq can motor when the opportunity presents itself. Nazr Mohammad and Rasho are at best average low block offensive players. Most of the time vs Houston it's Duncan who is posting up and the Spurs try to spread the floor because Rasho has some range on his shot. All of the Spurs' perimeter players can motor when the opportunity presents itself. Rasheed at 7' can post up but his real value is 3 point range. Although not high-octane, every Pistons rotational player with the exception of McDyess can motor when the opportunity presents itself. I'm running out of ways to say the same thing...we've already got the heavy artillery...we need more variations of tempo.
Nobody is saying we don't need athleticism and speed, look at our roster. The Rockets are devoid of athleticism or speed short of TMac, Head, Bogans and maybe Hayes (don't make me say Sad Waste of Incredible F'in Tallent). The point here is that this guy is going to be a very solid NBA player and Otis Thorpe in his prime standing next to Yao gives me chills. Fast breaks start with rebounds and blocked shots. If there is a long athletic wing that can start for us for the next 10 years when we pick then get him here. Oh and to all you people complaining about Sheldon Williams range, you obviously didn't see him play, he has a nice shot at around 12-15 feet.
Williams gets rebounds that can start those fast breaks. Not too mention a few offensive rebounds can translate to easy baskets as well. Yao often takes shots from a position that prevents him from getting the offensive board. Williams should give us defense and rebounding to a much greater degree than Howard and Swift. There is still free agency to fill our other needs.
I understand the notion of SW in Houston.. like so many others have said, he appears to be a nice, safe, solid pick, and not many people would be crying if we picked him up. Heck, I remember last year's draft, when there were a half-dozen 4's we were all dreaming about drafting, and the screams of "We picked LUTHER F'in HEAD???".. Just imagine if a player like Shelden had been there when we picked last year - we would have been ecstatic. Unfortunately for the idea of SW in Houston, we are all a year wiser. We got torched so many times from the perimeter, killed by guys both taking pot-shots from outside as well as driving right to the hole, all night long; so many times we lost simply because once TMac and Yao were less than 100%, we simply had nobody who could put the ball in the basket, that it is clear that the 4 spot is not nearly as pressingly in need of an upgrade as is the perimeter. While we will certainly need to address the point position some time soon, one cannot legitimately claim that either of the highly-touted pg's available (MWilliams and Foye) would be able to provide a significant perimeter-defense upgrade; and since our team is filled with non-shooters, it's hard to imagine a huge benefit from acquiring a guy who can 'dish' really well, since dishing to non-shooters is what we are already good at anyway. No, the kind of guy we need is someone who can play on the perimeter, preferably at least two positions (wet-dream would be three positions, 1,2 & 3), who can play inside-your-shirt perimeter defense, knock down open shots, and who can also handle the ball if necessary, both as distributor as well as having the ability to create his own shot. Shelden may be a 'nice', 'good' player, but really, what does he bring that someone like Cato wouldn't also bring? We already have an undersized all-hustle 4 in Hayes. But even if we want to get bigger, we could bring Cato back, or make offers to any number of solid journeyman-type guys out there who have experience and are still hungry. Of course those journeyman veterans would not be as good as Shelden, most likely, but the difference between him and some hungry vet is not as large as the difference between what we *have* on the perimeter now and what we could possibly get in the draft. No, the kind of guy we need in this draft more than SW is the Gay/Roy/Brewer/Carney kind of player, exactly the bigger-and-quicker kind of player the rest of the league is also salivating over (making them MUCH harder to acquire after the draft, btw). We are in a good position because, once Yao and Tracy are healthy, this is actually a good team, even with all our warts. Adding the guy I personally hope we get (Brewer) to that mix could very well make all the difference. Let Shelden go to GS or somewhere like that, maybe we can pry Murphy away from them more easily then. Brewer is our man.
I agree. But is the consensus opinion for Gay/Roy/Brewer/Carney that they will be a great NBA shooter / scorer? People do see Gay as a scorer in the league and that is why he should be long gone by #8. The rest I see as above average shooters and defenders. Not a bad thing. The deal with SW is that conventional wisdom says that servicable big men are usually gone by the mid first round. The Rockets might not have a chance to draft a SW like player, if they are healthy and perform as expected, over the next few years. If the Rox do pick SW, I can certainly see the reason. They will hope that they have landed a 4 that can start for them over the next ten years or so. This is a kind of player that can not be had with the MLE.
Ahhh, yes....Tmac on the left, Luther on the right, and Alston in the middle...to quote Cuttino Mobley"..."It's over".
Some questions for people who think we should take Shelden Williams: Do you say this only because you think he is a "safe" pick compared to others? Do you believe PF is our biggest need or is it SG? Do you think our interior defense needs more help or our perimeter defense? Are you assuming we will find our starting SG some other way or do you think Luther should be the starter? Just like last summer, I can't understand at all why the fascination with focusing on the PF position. We blew it royally by wasting our MLE on Stromile Swift when our backcourt CLEARLY was the greatest need. Why do so many want to make the same mistake again? Please give logical reasoned responses. Last summer things got pretty heated over Stro but I think we can keep the temperature down this time.
Murphy is the Perfect PF for us...but isn't he next to impossible to trade for? And yes, Brewer is our man.
I don't know that Sheldon has a tremendous upside. But I think he is as close as anything to a sure thing for what he is advertised as. He does not provide the long distance shooting that JVG wants but he is someone that could average 10 boards, 2 blocks and and some solid defense for the next ten years and I don't think anyone would complain about that. There are several players in this draft that intrigue the hell out of me including Redick. But all of those players have a much higher chance of failure as well. Sheldon Williams is almost a lock to be a solid starter in this league for a lot of years and with the 8th pick in a draft as full of question marks as this one, I would be more than happy with that.
I am not sure why GS would trade Murphy for Williams. I like Murphy perticularly his ability to hit the long ball but evan if GS wanted to trade him to us, I think he makes around 8 million a year.
I've tried so many deals for Murphy on the trade checker on realgm. I have tried a ton of combos and I still can't get it to work, I can't get enough salary to G.S. w/o dealing the half of the team (I don't try it w/ Howard because nobody wants him).
yes Have you read the rest of the thread? Nobody is debating that we are in serious need of help on the perimeter, but you are seriously stoned if you think that Jho/Swift is a quality rotation for any team claiming to be a contender(and I like Jho). The reality is that we need a PF and getting one allows us to focus on our other needs. Luther is not a bad player BTW and played very well as a rookie. The fascination with focus on PF comes from the fact that we don't have a good one . We blew it because we picked a guy with potential that is a waste of tallent. I'm not going to do the search but I doubt I find any posts from you last season about how CLEARLY we needed back court help, but FYI we picked the best 2 available with our 1st rounder and traded for a PG. There is also the 6'5" PG (Bob Sura) that is still on our roster that most people thought might play a little. The final straw here is the fact that TRACY MCGRADY was hurt the whole season... that probably made it pretty clear that we need help, and I'm sure you knew all that last season . waiting for your "logical response"
So true. To try making a realistic scenario which would land us Murphy is impossible. I also don't try Howard without involving a third team but even then no luck so i've given up on the idea of Murphy. Looks like whichever player we try to get for the PF spot will be a detriment in some way, we can go Tim Thomas, Vlad Radmanovic (shooting but no defense or rebounds) or we go banger like Shelden Williams who lacks any significant range but can bring it on the boards and shot blocks. Face it fellas...Juwan may just be our PF next season
Last summer, there were several very heated debates on what we needed to improve the team. I was one of a minority who said PG was #1, SG was #2 & PF was #3. If you bother to search, you will definitely find the threads. The debates involved the MLE, free agency and trades, not the draft. I was the most extreme against signing Stro. Having the #8 pick instead of #24 makes this year's draft a focus point. I had no problem with drafting Luther at #24. If you think Luther is a starting caliber SG, you are entitled to that opinion. Ain't no way in the world. Our SG spot was probably the worst in the NBA last season. Luther was terrible at defense, very shaky on offense and his upside is limited by his physical ability. The SG spot is clearly where we need the biggest improvement, not PF. It's an empty hole.
I found a couple of scenarios that work. Plug them into ESPN's Trade Machine to see for yourself. They do include Juwan, however... Howard Swift Head for Murphy Fisher Taft or, same trade without Head and Taft. Not saying I like either of them, but I just wanted to see what I could pull off.
